I received an interesting email from Joe D’Mello of the US. I share it with the readers. My response follows right after Joe’s letter.
Hello Leodini,
I live in the US. I did some research on the net and found that you are one of the leading magicians in the Philippines.
Do you know of Carmelo Cortez in the Philippines who makes sacred images appear on rose petals? Here is a link to some information about him:
What is your opinion as a professional magician? Do you believe that this is a miracle? I would be grateful to get your opinion.
Thanks and best regards,
Joe
Hi Joe,
Thank you for your letter. I’m glad you found me on the Internet and trust me to answer your question.
In sharing my opinion, I will not do an Amazing Randi burst-the-bubble-and-do-the jig act. If you asked Randi this question, he would probably play with gusto his part as the Patriarch of skepticism in the whole universe. That means, he would answer your question bluntly and then dance the Macarena for having shown you your gullibility quotient.
Forgive him for he is a skeptic.
I’m a skeptic, too. But I’d rather break it to you gently. More or less the same information, just served in a different style.
From your letter, I can’t tell if you are a believer, a skeptic or someone in between—an open-minded searcher of the truth.
To answer your first question, no, I don’t know Carmelo Cortez. He had been in the news a couple of years ago and maybe continues to get a few column inches of newspaper mention now and then, but I haven’t heard of him till you told me about him in your email.
You see, in the Philippines—where ignorance sometimes mixes with Catholicism—miracle workers, faith healers, seers, modern-day prophets and charismatic preachers are dime-a-dozen. Every now and then some of them grab media attention because of their miraculous works, wonders, bleeding statues and other oddities.
Many of these miracle men and women fizzle out after a week or two of basking in media spotlight, unmasked as frauds, their miracles found to be hoaxes. A few, however, survive long periods of scrutiny and, over the years, have built ardent base of followers and believers. So far, not one has been officially declared genuine by the Catholic church, which follows a stringent process for recognizing miracles based on its centuries-old standards.
I will, therefore, take a guarded stance, just like the Catholic church, in answering your question of whether I believe Carmelo Cortez’s rose petal images are miracles. To be fair to Carmelo (I gather from newspaper accounts he is a good person), my answer is “I don’t know”.
I have not seen the actual images on the petals (although I’ve seen photos of them). I have not seen how he performed his “miracles”. Since I cannot rely wholly on the report of the author of the article you provided (in magic we have this so-called false witness phenomenon; please read my article In Praise of False Witnesses), it is difficult to say categorically if Carmelo produced the rose petal images by supernatural means/divine intervention or by devious means.
After that gigantic hem and haw, let me give you a straight answer for a change. Someone with knowledge in magic (or printing, engraving, coin minting) can produce images on rose petals by using what we magicians would euphemistically call method (not trick) of the trade. While I don’t accuse Carmelo of using magic tricks to produce those petal images, I would dare say that those same images can be produced using natural, not divine, methods—if you choose to do so.
Over at his website, Randi divulges one possible method. You may want to head over there if you are curious about how you can produce images of saints on rose petals by natural means.
Here’s the link: Farce-of-the-Week via Fox-TV. You have to scroll down a bit to find the specific discussion on image-bearing rose petals, as the article also discusses stigmata, among several other topics.
If you have follow-up questions, please don’t hesitate to leave them on the comments box below. I’m here to help.
Stay magical,
Leodini
Leodini's Inner Magic 
Hi Leodini,
Thanks for your very thorough response! I, like you, would take the “I don’t know” stand because I have insufficient evidence to either prove or to disprove the miraculous claim. I greatly appreciate your very informative and interesting nuggests of opinions and information, and also the link to Randi’s site!
It appears to me (after researching this on the web) that Carmelo has a pretty ardent following in the Philippines, including many at high levels of Government, and is even a “brother” in the church, which would appear to me like the Catholic Church in the Philippines tacitly acknowledges his rose-petal phenomenon as being miraculous. He has been doing this for many many years now, so it is rather surprising to me that no one has asked for a rigorous scientific investigation of this phenomenon. Also, if Carmelo is truly an instrument of the Virgin Mary, he should have no problem or reluctance whatsoever with such an investigation because would have nothing to hide. So, my follow-up question to you would be:
Why do you think that after so many years of this phenomenon, no investigation has been carried out by the Catholic Church in the Philippines?
Thanks again for your time and talent!
Best regards,
Joe
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Sir: I recently came across your note. I had an occasion to see first hand Bro. Carmelo at Our Lady of Sorrows Catholic Church located in McAllen, Texas. He did no slight of hand merely placed his hand in a bowl of rose petals in Holy Water, prepared by the Knights of Columbus, Council 12040 and then handed out wafers. The petals prior to the service were guarded by 3 Knights and no one came near them. I was no more than 2 feet from him as he did this feat cannot explain it nor the other things I observed and felt that evening. Since there in a large filipino community in the area he has returned 2 times. Sincerely, Sir Knight Steven Hudson, Ed. D.
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Thanks, Steven, for your first-person account.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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I am Catholic, but unfortunately not the devout kind. That must explain my unfamiliarity with how the Catholic church handles or authenticates claims of miracles.
Despite my unfamiliarity, let me answer your questions by not making the following assumptions:
“…that no one has asked for a rigorous scientific investigation of this phenomenon.” On the contrary, I’m sure some priests, bishops or nuns have initiated an investigation. We just don’t know about their effort, as it has not made it to the news yet.
“…that after so many years of this phenomenon, no investigation has been carried out by the Catholic Church in the Philippines.” I won’t make this assumption, either. For all I know, an investigation may have been going on for years now. Unfortunately, the investigators have not yet reached any conclusion or formed any opinion. Give them a couple of centuries, though, and I’m sure they will wrap up their inquiry and come up with brilliant findings that will enlighten us.
Carmelo’s huge number of followers does not validate his phenomenon, just as the fanatics who pack in caves or in some cultists camps do not indicate the worthiness of joining those cults. The dead at Waco and Jonestown may still be gnashing their teeth somewhere, bewailing their previous, gullible life on earth.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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Somehow i missed the point. Probably lost in translation 🙂 Anyway … nice blog to visit.
cheers, Transferal.
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Probably because I don’t have a point…
Leodini
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IF YOU DO NOT KNOW THE PEOPLE WHO FOLLOWS CARMELO CORTES. DO NOT COMPARE THEM TO FANATICS WHO HAS NO BRAINS AND LIVES IN THE CAVES BECAUSE WE ARE NOT. OUR FAITH IS ON GOD. THROUGH MOTHER MARY. WE DO NOT DO MAGIC MAGIC. WE BELEIVE THAT HE WAS THE INSTRUMENT OF GOD TO BRING PEOPLE BACK TO OUR FAITH. WE ARE NOT WOLVES WITH OUR SALIVA DROOLING IN FOLLOWING HIM.
IT IS OUR FAITH TO GOD. GET IT?. IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE , STAY ON YOUR CORNER AND SHUT UP.
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I really do not think a devote Catholic should tell someone to stay on your corner and shut up… that is not what God would say or Jesus.. Everyone has an opinion… Let’s educate people about our beliefs without belittling theirs… Jesus is kind and good… He wants us to teach not to preach… Please have a Blessed Day…
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I have to nix your suggestion for me to stay in my corner and shut up. This is a blog meant to communicate our ideas to our audience. If I were to follow your advice, there would be nothing but blank pages here.
Lighten up. I am not attacking your belief. On the contrary, I have a healthy respect for people’s views, creeds and persuasions even if they are contrary to mine. I hope you hold the same respect for my belief (or disbelief) and for the skepticism of others who don’t see things the way you do.
History is replete with violence, crusades, murders, rapes, genocides, witches on stakes and suicide bombings in the name of deities and religions. If people only tolerate other people’s beliefs more than they have demonstrated so far, we wouldn’t be needing images on rose petals to prop up our faith in God. We would find no need to scrounge around for miracles, as humans living in harmony despite their diversity would be, by itself, a miracle.
I suggest you re-read what I earlier wrote. I did not compare the followers of Carmelo Cortes to brainless fanatics who live in caves. What I wrote was that the huge number of his followers does not necessarily prove the genuineness of his miracles, in the same way that the large number of cultists living in caves does not validate the correctness of their leader’s teachings.
It seems the nuance of what I wrote has escaped you completely. Blame it on my writing skill, or lack of it. I have to go review my Writing 101 subject, so I will be clearer next time.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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I have shared many experiences with Brother Carmelo Cortez and have reason to believe he is a simple sincere
human being.
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You have to personally experience it to believe it!
Last Friday, Carmelo Cortez held a healing service for the BLD community in St. Mary’s Church, Rahway, NJ. My mom, sister, and I was present, and we had no clue about the miraculous petals beforehand.
All three of us waited on line to stand at the altar with several other people. He laid hands over our heads, said a silent prayer, then inserted one white rose petal within the hem/collar of our shirts. After we left the altar, we waited a few more seconds before viewing the petals. I was amazed to see the calvary scene (Crucified Jesus and two criminals at his side)etched on the petal. All three of us had the same sacred image. It was so intricate and detailed on something so small and delicate; there was no way it was pre-made.
I am 100% sure that the petals were blank like a sheet of paper before we received it. Others who attended received images of the Last Supper, Lady of Guadalupe, Virgin Mary and child, Holy Spirit (in the form of a dove) etc. Carmelo isn’t one to claim fame and glory for himself, but humbly insists that it is the hand of the Lord and that he is only an instrument faithfully serving Him. I’d be suspicious if he had said otherwise.
I truly believe that I have witnessed a miracle, not some hoax or magic trick. I know there are many skeptics out there, but to them I would say that if such an opportunity arises, please attend the event!
See it, and decide for yourself.
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Thanks for sharing your experiences. I really appreciate your taking the time to write them.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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Thank you for your skepticism. As an engineer I am also a skeptic. My family and I were lucky to have attended one of his services in Salinas, CA. We were not planning to go there on Oct 4 because my eldest and I were running the half-marathon in San Jose the next day. We went to Salinas to visit my brother who is leaving for PI on Oct 7.
During the service, Brother Cortez dispelled any doubts by having volunteer attendees prepare the mineral water and rose petals into a bowl. During the healing a different volunteer is holding the bowl while he moved from one person to another. There are 5 of us in my family. All of us received different images – 2 different images of Mother Thereas, 2 different images of the Divine Mercy, and the fifth is San Rafael the angel.
For me that wasnt the miracle. The true miracle is that I was able to finish the half-marathon pain free. As a background, I could not even train for the race because I think my right leg has a stress fracture. I have a doctor’s appt this Friday to have it x-rayed. During the race the leg was pain free. Below are the links to the race and the miracle petals.
Half-marathon
http://www.flickr.com/photos/allaurente/sets/72157607772616072/
Petals
http://www.flickr.com/photos/allaurente/sets/72157607748466761/
In closing Leodini, I really want to prove the petals are fake. I just could not find anything wrong with them. The petals were blank in the beginning, Brother Cortez’ had nothing in his hands or fingers during the service, and he has the backing of the Archbishop in the Philippines, Parish Priest in Salinas, and the Archbishop on Monterey County.
I will not be surprised if years from now, Brother Cortez’ could lose his healing gift. God could take it away. Then at that time, he could be boneheaded and try to do magical tricks to make it look real just to continue the service. Because people do donate generously in the service and the sin of greed could take over. At that point, any miracle that he may have done in the past even if they are true miracles would be considered fake. As far as my limited scientific, technical engineering mind is, the petals he gave us on October 4 are true miracles.
This is not the first miracle I have seen so it would not break my faith if it was fake. I have seen the incorruptible dead bodies of saints inside the Vatican. The Buddhists claim that they also have the same phenomenon. But if you looked closely the Buddhist incorruptibles have signs of decay similar to those preserved in ice. The Catholic incorruptibles are preserved as if they just died today.
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I HAD A GREAT EXPERIENCED WITH BROD. CARMELO CORTEZ.
TRICK, MAGIC CALL IT WHAT EVER YOU WANT, BUT FOR ME, COMING FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART… IT ITS HE AS THE INSTRUMENT OF OUR GOD AND OF VIRGIN MARY MOTHER OF GOD WHO WORKS ON IT. IT WAS 1992 AT 3AM, I WAS SERVING AS HIS VOLUNTEER, BROD. CARMELO ASK ME TO HOLD 3PCS. OF WHITE ROSES… AND AS I HOLD THE ROSES, HE LAY HIS HAND AND SAY A LITTLE PRAYER, AND THAT THE FLOWERS BLOOM… OPENS ALL THE PETALS, A SMALL PETALS REMAIN AT THE CENTER AND BECOME HOST…. THAT SERVE AS THE BODY AND BLOOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST…..WILL YOU CALL THIS A MAGIC? ITS NOT. ITS A MIRACLE FROM OUR BELOVED MOTHER MARY.
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Hi,
Thank you for your sincerity. I’m happy for you. Your belief is strong. Not many people are similarly endowed with faith as strong as yours. You should be happy, and not sound upset.
Just to make myself clear—again. I never said that Bro. Carmelo produced his rose petal images using magic tricks.
What I have been saying so far is that, “I don’t know.” I have not seen the actual performances of these miracles. I, therefore, don’t have enough evidence to form an intelligent opinion or material on which to base a conclusion.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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I really don’t know how to express my thoughts on this matter since I have never been a religious person. The last time I attended church was when I was 16, and I am now 29.
My boyfriend’s mother though is religious and asked me to attend a service with her. I did go and I got to meet Bro. Carmelo. He is a very humble person and asks for no donations. He would prefer you donate to your local chuch.
He does do as people say, though. I was very skeptical and was in shock when the images appeared on the petals. I recieved one with an image of the mother mary and child and the detail in the image is amazing!
Wether you are a believer or not, if you get the opportunity to attend a gathering please do so. It will leave you with a feeling not of disbelief but of curiosity and shock. I could not in anyway disprove his ability and i don’t believe I am the one to ever try. You have to see for yourself.
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I have attended 6 or 7 of Carmelo’s services in various churches in the area over the last few years.
In most services there was no collection taken up. In 4 or 5 of these services I was a “catcher” ( a volunteer who stands behind the person as they are prayed over so if they are “slain in the Spirit” they do not hit the floor). I say this because doing this gave me a very good opportunity to observe everything from the outset of these services from close up. Which in part, was why I did this especially at the first few of these services I attended I was skepitical and felt there was some sort of trick.
The service starts with some prayers and a talk by Carmelo. After which he opens a new bottle of water. Since I was so close I could hear the seal crack. He always takes a drink and then pours some of the water over the white rose petals removed from the altar just seconds prior to this.
The bowl he uses is always a clear glass bowl. As soon as he does this, the entire church fills with a strong rose fragrance. This rose fragrance occurred at every service I attended. The attendance at these various services ranged from 300 to over 1000.
Ever one who wanted a rose petal receive one however not ever one had an image on it. As some one who witnessed these services up close there is no way these could have been stamped or printed. There was just no opportunity. As you can imagine all the petals are of different sizes and the images I have seen always fits the petal size.
My wife had attended several services before she received a petal with an image. When she did receive one with an image, it was on a petal about the size of a dime – very small. When she recovered it from her blouse, it had no image on it and she was disappointed, and while we were both looking at it, as it rested in her palm, an image of the Sacred Heart of Jesus appeared before our eyes.
Usually by the time the petal is removed by the person from their shirt the image is already visible. There is never an opportunity to tamper with these rose petals before the service starts since they are in plan view as bouquets in vases and are removed from the stems by volunteers from the church and placed directly into a clear glass dish and given directly to Carmelo.
In addition, he always wears a short-sleeve shirt. There has been at least one service where the Pastor has had the roses under lock and key before the service, so that they could not be tampered with by any one. At that same church, the Pastor did not allow Carmelo to touch the petals. Carmelo did pour the water over them and said a prayer over them as he usually does. Someone else, a volunteer from the parish, took them out of the bowl and placed them in people’s shirts while Carmelo prayed over that person.
The images still appeared. I have personally seen 50 or more rose petals with unique images all quite detailed. If this is not a miracle I would like someone to explain how this is done. It has to be more than he has some little stamping operation in the back room. This is more to this just stamped rose petals any one can think of that. There is just no time nor opportunity for the stamping. If that was the case how can that explain the Sacred Heart of Jesus appearing before our eyes?
I can also personally say that there is nothing on these petals while they are in the bowl as he moves from person to person. I could plainly seen in the bowl and was only a foot or so away as he passed in front of me hundreds of time over the course of these 4 or 5 services where I was a catcher and I was looking for any petals with any markings on them while in the bowl.
The not so amazing Randi said to me in an email that it is easy – he has stamps and acted like any one who believed it was a miracle was a fool since it would be easy to do this.
While I would be willing to bet he could not do it under the same circumstances as Carmelo does it, just stamping a dime size petal would be tedious. In addition, just how long would it take to stamp 500 or so petals just one nights worth. When he is the area he goes from Church to Church several nights in a row. He would need a little factory stamping these things.
It also seems to me that the stamping process would leave cuts or holes. None that I have seen have cuts or holes. That would be especially difficult since when he comes to the area he stays with friends I know from church, and they take him from Church to Church. These people have absolutely no reason to perpetrate a fraud on their neighbors and friends. Pax et bonum.
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I NOTICED SOME CONFUSING LANGUAGE IN MY POSTING. PLEASE REPLACE MY POSTING WITH THE FOLLOWING: I have attended 6 or 7 of Carmelo’s services in various churches in the area over the last few years.
In most services there was no collection taken up. In 4 or 5 of these services I was a “catcher” ( a volunteer who stands behind the person as they are prayed over so if they are “slain in the Spirit” they do not hit the floor). I say this because doing this gave me a very good opportunity to observe everything from the outset of these services from close up. Which in part, was why I did this……. especially during the first services I attended I was skeptical and felt there was some sort of trick.
The service starts with some prayers and a talk by Carmelo. After which he opens a new bottle of water. Since I was so close I could hear the seal crack. He always takes a drink and then pours some of the water over the white rose petals removed from the altar just seconds prior to this.
The bowl he uses is always a clear glass bowl. As soon as he does this, the entire church fills with a strong rose fragrance. This rose fragrance occurred at every service I attended. The attendance at these various services ranged from 300 to over 1000.
Every one who wanted a rose petal received one however not every petal had an image on it. As some one who witnessed these services up close there is no way these could have been stamped or printed. There was just no opportunity. As you can imagine, all the petals are of different sizes and the images I have seen always fits the petal size.
My wife had attended several services before she received a petal with an image. When she did receive one with an image, it was on a petal about the size of a dime – very small. When she recovered it from her blouse, it had no image on it and she was disappointed, and while we were both looking at it, as it rested in her palm, an image of the Sacred Heart of Jesus appeared before our eyes.
Usually by the time the petal is removed by the person from their shirt the image is already visible. There is never an opportunity to tamper with these rose petals before the service starts since they are in plain view as bouquets in vases and are removed from the stems by volunteers from the church. They are then placed directly into a clear glass dish and given directly to Carmelo.
In addition, he always wears a short-sleeve shirt. There has been at least one service where the Pastor has had the roses under lock and key before the service, so that they could not be tampered with by any one. At that same church, the Pastor did not allow Carmelo to touch the petals. Carmelo did pour the water over them and said a prayer over them as he usually does. Someone else, a volunteer from the parish, took them out of the bowl and placed them in people’s shirts while Carmelo prayed over that person.
The images still appeared. I have personally seen 50 or more rose petals with unique images all quite detailed. If this is not a miracle I would like someone to explain how this is done. It has to be more than he has some little stamping operation in the back room. There is more to this than just stamped rose petals. Any one can think of that. There is just no time nor opportunity for the stamping. If that was the case, how can that explain the Sacred Heart of Jesus appearing before our eyes?
I can also personally say that there is nothing on these petals while they are in the bowl as he moves from person to person. I could plainly see in the bowl and was only a foot or so away. He passed in front of me hundreds of times over the course of these 4 or 5 services where I was a catcher. I was certainly looking for any petals with any markings on them while in the bowl.
The not so amazing Randi said to me in an email that it is easy – he has stamps and acted like any one who believed it was a miracle was a fool since it would be easy to do this.
While I would be willing to bet he could not do it under the same circumstances as Carmelo does it, just stamping a dime size petal would be tedious. In addition, just how long would it take to stamp 500 or so petals in just one night? When he is the area he goes from Church to Church several nights in a row. He would need a little factory stamping these petals.
It also seems to me that the stamping process would leave cuts or holes. None that I have seen have cuts or holes. That would be especially difficult since when he comes to the area he stays with friends I know from church, and they take him from Church to Church. These people have absolutely no reason to perpetrate a fraud on their neighbors and friends. Pax et bonum.
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21 june, 2009
Lincoln, CA
Brother Carmelo Cortez came to our parish ( diocese of Sacramento ) upon our invitation. My wife and I with about 20 other sponsors of various ethnic backgrounds, all Catholics were with him for three days, to help facilitate as he ministered to two churches. Attendance was large for every service, always preceded by Mass and Holy Eucharist, celebrated by a priest.
The process and details of the Miraculous Petals had been described previously, and was the same with us. My wife and I along with maybe 95% of those who received the petals were blessed with beautiful, detailed images. I received a beautiful image ot the Blessed Mother with her Immaculate Heart on the feastday (June 20). Needless to say, I was overcome by a deep sense of gratitude and humility. This day, no doubt, is the most blessed for me and made my faith even stronger.
But beyond these special gifts we received, is the Message that Brother Carmelo left us : We must continue to pray, to be humble, to love others as the Lord loves us, and to help the poor.
I have no doubt that these petals are authentic messages from God.
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Quotes from Leodini:
“After that gigantic hem and haw, let me give you a straight answer for a change. Someone with knowledge in magic (or printing, engraving, coin minting) can produce images on rose petals by using what we magicians would euphemistically call method (not trick) of the trade. While I don’t accuse Carmelo of using magic tricks to produce those petal images, I would dare say that those same images can be produced using natural, not divine, methods—if you choose to do so.”
This is a great straightforward answer that I am looking for. And since it is a method of the trade it’s not proper to ask you to reveal how it is done. Thank you.
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I have read about the question on the rose petals. You should go and see him, for you to believe. He is just an instrument of the Blessed Mother.
My son had a wedding at that time and the roses used for the wedding was sent to that particular church in Bulacan. We followed that same afternoon. As soon as I entered the church, my wife and I smelled the roses immediately, but the altar was way far from the entrance and the church was open at that time for construction (wind was blowing the opposite direction). By the way I am from the US and just went for this occasion.
Before the mass I was told that the water is usually fetched from the well under the grotto and placed for distribution to the people after the mass- which turns into oil that smalls like roses.
After the mass several people stood by the grotto for a blessing. Carmelo handed the roses that was from my son’s wedding and picked each petal from the rose and gave each one of us with our hands open. I can clearly see a petal no image! Everyone was told to close their hands and each one was blessed (Carmelo touching each head ). I got a very vivid image of Christ after he was taken down from the cross with the 3 Mary’s. My wife got Blessed Mother’s face, while my biyanan got the last supper.
Now how is that possible when Carmelo picked each petal in front of you, gave it to your hands and see that there is no imprint- then all of a sudden after the blessing different images appeared?
Then he took a picture of the Visitation of the Blessed mother from the Archangel and put it on top of one of the faithful and blessed her. That same pictured appeared on the petal. This other woman had another picture placed on her head and after the blessing the same image was transposed to the rose petal.
The Blessed Mother came to visit me at that time through this man, but at times I try to neglect that she did.
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People at work were going nuts over the images on this guys petals as they had been to a conference that he was at. They felt like it was a divine manifestation. I am a strong believer in Jesus Christ but did not feel AT ALL that this was a divine manifestation. It saddens me that so many profess Christ who do not appear to really be honest about how he shows himself. Thanks for your insightful and fair comments. I will respond as you did with ” I don’t know” so as to respect those who truly believe it’s straight from heaven…
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The rose petal image is a gift for that person that receives it. For me it was an image of the suffering Christ, for a priest present it was the last supper, for my grandson and his mother it was a miracle host that formed from the rose petal. My grandson had just made his first communion. Others had identified their image as a special personal gift. The other gift we receive is the importance of Carmelo Cortez Ministry with emphasis and reminder of the importance of the Sacraments. I urge you to attend and receive the graces present without prejudging.
God Bless You
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God bless you also.
Best,
Leodini
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Tony, in part you said: “for a priest present it was the last supper, for my grandson and his mother it was a miracle host that formed from the rose petal.” It is my experience it is common for priests to get the Last Supper scene on their petals. For any one who hasn’t seen this one it is amazing in its detail. As to you your comment about a miracle host forming from the rose petal – I never heard of this before. Can you explain what you mean by this. Did the petal turn into a host? If so is it still in that condition? Or was it an image of a host on the petal? Thanks and God Bless.
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Folks, sorry to disappoint you. This is no miracle. This rose petal ‘miracle’ is sleight-of-hand magic trick. For those of you who have seen the performance, did you ever wonder why the images are the more familiar Catholic images? The petals are pressed into those Catholic medallions that you can buy in Catholic stores, churches, and in stalls around them like in Quiapo and Baclaran, that’s why the images appear like the holy family, the virgin with the children of Lourdes, etc. Have you ever wondered why non-Catholics are not falling into this ‘pious fraud?’
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Norm, your unsupported statement is typical of critics who have never been to one of Carmelo’s services. Go to one and see how he does it and then tell us exactly how he stamps 300 to 1000 fresh petals….the number he typically distributes in just one evening.
He usually visits several Churches in a week when he visits an area. That would certainly take a lot of folks who would also be part in the “pious fraud”. Anyone with half a brain can say he stamps them but exactly how does he do it with the lack time and opportunity he has for such a process?
Every Catholic and most non Catholics, know there are little medals with similar images – these can be found everywhere. None of them have the kind of detail that these petals have. I have received a petal with an image of the Blessed Mother holding the Child Jesus in her arms and you can see the fingernails on the hands of the Blessed Mother. Try stamping a single rose petal and see just how hard it really is, especially to keep it from damaging the petal while pressing hard enough to imprint that kind of detail. In addition, when you see how fresh the petals are when you get them you can see that these are not old petals. As to non Catholic images, there are petals with the Last Supper, is that only a Catholic image?
I frankly am not familiar with other non-Catholic Christian images. I would like for you to list some so we could know if there has been petals with those images.
Now for the really hard question. Tell us how to stamp the petal and only make it appear after it is received. See the above from me for the details of this.
So Norm give us some answers to these questions so we can have some basis for your pious fraud theory other than there are images to use as a stamp. I am really interested in learning more from your enlightened mind. Pax
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It is now over 3 years and no response from Norm. Probably has blocked me like the not so amazing Randi. It is also interesting to note, no one else has taken up my challenge. Pax
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I might be able to see Carmelo Cortez next week.
If anything interesting happens, I’ll let you know.
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I just happened upon tis blog and thought to leave a comment.
I have been fortunate to attend two church services featuring Bro Carmelo and his miracle rose petal ministry.
The first service I attended, I was quite the skeptc along with my parish priest who was also a skeptic. Father only allowed Carmelo to minister by the direction of the Bishop otherwise Carmelo would not have found an audience at our church.
Father stayed with Carmelo throughout the service and was as amazed as was the entire congregation.
I received a rose petal which developed in the palm of my hand much lie watching a Poloroid flm. My first thoughts were “How does he do this?” I then looked over to my son, who was 10 at the time, and saw that he was almost crumbling his rose petal so I took it from him and held it in the palm of my right hand where the face of the Madonna appeared.
There was a warm sensation in the palm of my hand unde the rose petal, that night and for months after.
I am no longer a skeptic.
The Madonna? When I saw her face……now I’m a believer.
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I am very interested in Brother Carmelo. I have searched him on computer, but could not find any listing of a schedule appearances. Does anyone know how to find this information??? THANKS
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I saw him in person. A “miracle” that requires body heat to develop is not a miracle. A miracle that sometimes develops thumb prints is not a miracle. A miracle that recycles a couple dozen images over and over is not a miracle.
I am a practising Catholic who believes in miracles. But I also believe in the existence of dishonest people.
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saulsaul: No amount of rational explanation will convince you it is fraud. You can believe all you want, that is your right. If this is a bonafide miracle, why is the Vatican not even investigating it yet? After all, it is the one that elevated Mary into a god-like status, and this is one great way to confirm it since Mary is always very prominent in the petal ‘images.’ Magicians David Copperfield, Lance Burton, Penn & Teller, Criss Angel and David Blaine create better illusions. I’m sure that the petal ‘miracle’ gives you comfort and strengthens your faith, so just keep believing.
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saulsaul: You mentioned that you have already e-mailed the ‘not so’ amazing Randi and was not satisfied with his explanation either. You must be aware then that his James Randi Educational Foundation offers $1 million prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. I’m sure that the rose petal ‘miracle’ falls under the paranormal and supernatural categories. What better way to validate this miracle and get the $1 million prize. Bro. Carmelo can then donate it to the church, fund his own charities, give to the poor or simply keep the money! Why don’t you facilitate the application for $1 million challenge since you are already aware of the ‘not so’ amazing Randi? No excuses now.
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Mary, I have seen over 100 rose petals with different images and not one looks remotely like a “finger print”. As I have previously posted the images are extremely detailed beyond anything I would have expected especially considering how small they are. As stated, in one of my prior posts: I have received a petal with an image of the Blessed Mother holding the Child Jesus in her arms and you can see the fingernails on the hands of the Blessed Mother. I have also seen several petals with the Last Supper others with the head of Jesus with the crown of thorns both are simply amazing in their detail.
Your statement requiring body heat to produce an image is also puzzling. No body heat was used/needed to produce my several images. As to my wife, an image of the Sacred Heart very quickly appeared, before our eyes, while she was holding it in the palm of her hand. Some slight amount of body heat may have been involved in that image, but since it happened so quickly it is doubtful that heat from her hand had time to transfer to the petal. Regardless, under your line of reasoning two of Jesus’ miracles should be discounted because He used His spittle to give sight to a blind man and hearing to a deaf man? (Mark 7:31-35, Mark 8:22-25) I bet those two men Jesus cured had no doubt miracles occurred as do the vast majority of His followers.
Norm, where is the rational explanation? Given the facts as I have witnessed them I have not heard anything close to a rational explanation and certainly not from you. Obviously you can not provide such a rational explanation. I would love to hear something more than there is a printing press in the back room. After all that is a pretty simple minded explanation. My dog is smart enough to come up with that one. It does, however, give me a warm feeling that I have your permission to believe it “all I want”. Here in the USA freedom of religion is not yet up to the dictates of the regime in power unlike many other places where intolerant and angry religious zealots are in control.
The Vatican only investigates miracles when there is a pending case of some one up for saint hood which only occurs after a person is dead. When an investigation is done on a matter like this, it is directed by the local Bishop, which has been done and Carmelo’s Bishop has approved it as worthy of belief.
In fact there may be better illusions, mostly because they are more elaborate, but all illusions are just that and all have explanations. As an amateur magician, when I was a youngster, I had an life long interest in good illusions and figuring them out, which I have done with practically all of them, especially with the help of the internet. The majority have complicated and expensive props and many accomplices to make them work. If any one, who has actually been to one of Carmelo’s services can answer some very specific questions about how he does this than I will be the first to say that I have been duped. A couple of these questions are: How does he hand out, in one service, as many as 1500 white rose petals from a clear glass dish and there is not a mark on any petal in the dish as he is distributing them. I have been up close, two – ten feet away the entire time he does this, and I have made it my business to look in the dish for any petals with marks of any sort. From my vantage point it would be obvious if there were any marks on any of these white petals. Another question: How does Carmelo made an image appear on a rose petal while in my wife’s hands and before our eyes. By the way, mere body heat is not a rational explanation as Mary seems to believe. This may be hard for you to understand, but my faith does not depend on this being a miracle or not. In fact, the reason I contacted Randi was to have him debunk this. The amazingly arrogant Randi was dismissive without giving a clue as to how he could “easily perform” such an illusion. I guess that is the “rational explanation” I should accept. That may be good enough for you, but not me. Well Norm, you can put your faith in Randi, Copperfield,etc. “all you want”, if that gives you comfort. As to his million dollar reward, that is as much an illusion as his stage act. It is now Randi who has no excuses. He had his opportunity to put up or shut up and he shut up and since he could not answer my specific questions blocked me from his email. No wonder he has never had to pay out his million dollar reward which was not the reason I had contacted him.
Now Norm, I challenge you, or any one, to give me a “rational explanation” to my two questions, especially the second one. We all shall see if you address this challenge on your next post – I bet not. In fact, I’ll wager there be no more posts here from you. Pax
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this is the magic of self duplication.
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A one word description of Mark’s posting: gibberish.
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I was there when Bro. Carmelo Cortez visited Salinas, Ca.
I dont believe he is legit. I feel that he used distraction techniques. When he supposedly turned the mineral water to oil, he then instructed everyone to dip their rosaries into it. The people started scampering to get their rosaries into the bowl… in short everyone focused on the bowl with rose scented oil.
I on the other hand chose to stare at Bro Carmelo. I don’t know why I decided to just look at him. I was not skeptic… I just caught myself looking.
I saw his hands came out of his pocket then quickly mixed/tossed his hands in the bowl filled wih rose petals that he was holding… the same bowl where the “miraculous” printed petals came from.
I was dumbfounded and suddenly found myself crying… not because I was in awe of the miracle happening around me, but because of my own desperation. The petals he gave me were printed and a bit old… compared to the petals that were just torn from the fresh white roses.
Inside the house he did another “miracle”… I was there. He had a small styro bowl with petals. Then he asked me for some water. I turned around to get it then gave it to him. With the bowl partially hidden from my view, he poured some water and turned the petals into the Eucharist. Again his hands were tossig the bowl. The Eucharist was all clumped up on the top while the roses were all in the bottom. It makes you think that with a quick stroke of his hands, he dumped them on top of the bowl.
I think it’s all magic, and he is a fraud. But I cannot tell anybody around me and wreak havoc in a place where I was amongst ardent believers. I did tell my spouse and just like me he did not feel the divine when we went there…
It was flat-out trickery. Next time he comes, we will be there an we will watch him… now there will be two of us watching.
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Bring a video camera to record everything. Record even actions you think are innocent and inconsequential. You’ll be surprised what the camera will catch.
Cameras can’t be distracted. They can’t be misdirected. Its unblinking eye will record everything.
Then send me the video. I’ll analyze it for you. Maybe we can find the truth and set you free from being marooned between faith and skepticism.
Best,
Leodini
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I saw him at a church and then at a house in New Jersey. At the church I didn’t really watch him very intently so I couldn’t see how he did it. At the house I was watching carefully. AT the moment when the petals were to turn into images he asked for a tissue. Someone offered him a box but he refused it and then left the room to get a tissue. When he returned the dish was filled with the imaged petals. Clearly he’s a fake. If you had seen what I saw you would realize he’s a fake. I stayed for some Filipino food and left. If you notice, it’s mostly Filipinos who follow him.
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Thanks, Bernadette, for sharing what you witnessed. The tissue paper ploy is a crude ploy by magic’s standard. I can’t imagine any magician would be so brazen as to use it in a performance. Why would a so-called miracle worker use it is beyond me, except to speculate he has become so overconfident he no longer fears detection.
An unedited, no cut-away video shot of Bro. Carmelo working his miracle would allow me to make a more informed opinion. I’m at a loss why, over the years since I posted articles about Bro. Carmelo, someone has yet to take on my invitation to send me video clips.
Is it because the believers fear to learn the truth? And the skeptics don’t need any more convincing?
Stay magical,
Leodini
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Leodine, better yet is a witness such as yourself. Does he not appear near you? You would be the best to see any deception. I have never seen him leave the plan view of all at any of the services I have attended that would be rookie stuff. Blessing to you.
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Bro. Carmelo conducts his services in the US. I’m based in the Philippines.
Leodini
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Leodini, Carmelo has healing services where he distributes rose petals at his house of prayer in the Philippines. See the attached:
http://showbizandstyle.inquirer.net/lifestyle/lifestyle/view/20060610-4483/A-trail-of-faith-paved-by-roses#_
Is this near you or your travels? I would guess, he travels around the Philippines holding his healing services. I am sure his house of prayer would have his schedule. Every one would greatly appreciate your first hand observations .
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When he called me by phone, he was in the US.That was a couple of years ago. I’m under the impression he has not yet returned to the Philippines.
The link you provided was about his healing services in 2006, before he left for the States.
Leodini
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It is my understanding he has a home in the Philippines and spends most of his time there. See the attached article which in part says:
“Bro Carmelo left for the Philippines after the service in LA, grateful for the donations the parishes he visited gave for the victims of the typhoons, especially those belonging to his parish in Malolos, Bulacan.” This was in 2009.
It is also reported in that same article:
“The visionary healer has a radio program on Sundays at 12 noon to 1pm at Radio Veritas 846 AM band.” He must be in the Philippines when doing that broadcast. Can you pick that up?
For the full article see:
http://www.asianjournal.com/dateline-usa/15-dateline-usa/3277-gods-wake-up-call-for-filipinos-to-change–bro-carmelo-corte.html
I do not want this to sound wrong, but how much trouble would it be to call this house of prayer? That would almost instantly clears this issue up.
Thanks and God Bless.
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Thanks for providing me leads of Bro. Carmelo’s whereabouts.
I’ll ask around and see if I can track him down.
Best,
Leodini
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An interesting video of a Carmelo service at a private home on Aug. 8, 2010. It shows how many rose petals he freely gives out as well as the variety of images.
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More info on Carmelo at this site:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=136291379748289
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From the eight or ten responses that I have read, no one has mentioned the fragrance that permeates the church when the water Bro. Carmelo opens from sealed bottles. The water is poured into a clear bowl and as he adds the petals the water becomes oil and a fragrance of roses fills the church. I have not smelled a fragrance like this in my life. I am 67 and have smelled a lot of roses. When I went, I dipped a rosary into the fragrant oil and the rosary held the fragrance for days afterward. My petal image was of an ancient town.. Some have said that it could be of Bethlehem or Jerusalem. This is not magic. This is Devine. I am not one to believe in false Prophets. He tours all over the world and asks no money. The church pays his travel expenses. I believe he is truly a Holy Man. John Paul II was a Holy Man who believed in the blessings and Mercy of Mary as does this quiet and humble man. Try to attend one of his services.
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weeee tomorrow is first saturday where brother carmelo will be concelebrating mass at 12 noon at the our lady of eucharist and grace in san vicente, santa maria bulacan.
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I just wonder if any professional magician would every say he witnessed an actual miracle? Such a statement would cause severe ridicule by such super stars as the not so great Randi and other atheist magicians.
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Not all professional magicians are atheists. For the part of Inner Magic Club, we always start our weekly meetings and annual public shows (usually staged in theaters) with a prayer. We also have members who are gospel magicians. They preach the teachings of the Scriptures, using magic as a visual aid.
However, a magician well-versed in his art will not easily accept unexplained phenomena as miracles. Over the years, most of them have developed pragmatic views of life’s mysteries. Just as a surgeon would become less squeamish at the constant sight of blood and gore on the operating table, a magician will regard miracles with disinterest, if not utter disbelief. This is because trickery, artifice, subterfuge, and illusion have desensitized him over the years of performing his own brand of miracles he calls magic.
I believe the sad thing about being a magician is that most of them have lost their sense of wonder—the very thing that drew them to magic in the first place. They no longer have the childlike readiness to marvel at wondrous things they don’t understand. This is true when they watch other magicians perform magic. This is equally true when they watch someone perform “miracles” or hear him claim supernatural powers.
In most part, a magician’s skepticism emanates from the loss of his childlike wonder, and not from the prospect of being ridiculed by his peers.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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Thanks. Excellent response. I did not mean to indicate that you are even most professional magicians were atheists. Mostly I was trying to figure out why you did not seem curious enough to try to witness one of these services. Surely I am not the only person who wants you to tell us what the trick is if there is one.
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Thank you for your understanding.
I know some readers are waiting with bated breath for my own opinion on what the trick is, if there is one, to produce petal images. I myself am interested to know.
However, to investigate this so-called miracle, I have to attend at least one service of Bro. Carmelo and video tape the proceedings, hoping to catch something.
That is not easy for me to do, though. I live in the south outskirts of Metro Manila, while Bro. Carmelo is said to hold his services in the north outskirts. Between these places is a two- to three-hour drive across the infamous, traffic choked streets of Metro Manila.
I heard Bro. Carmelo holds his services in Bulacan, a fairly large province. Unless someone tells me where in Bulacan the services are held, I won’t be able to find it and get there. Also, from the little information I have gathered so far, I hear the services are held on weekends. That’s when I’m mostly out into the world dashing from one gig to another. I just don’t have the time and inclination to attend religious services when I’m working to earn a living.
While many of the readers of this blog may think that Bro. Carmelo is a huge personality here in the Philippines, he is not. I have not come upon his name in the media lately, or heard him being talked about by people. His works and the schedule of his services are not even publicized.
While it is not impossible to track him down, I won’t go to great lengths to hook up with him, just so I can validate my skepticism. I’m an entertainer, and debunking miracles, or ascertaining them, is not my mission in life.
However, if someone will give me on a silver platter Bro. Carmelo’s schedule of services—date, time, and place—I may be able to catch one. I will press myself to go, if my own schedule is clear. I have a gospel magician who has indicated his interest to come with me. Unfortunately, I believe that will not happen any time soon, because December is coming up and my calendar is full.
The waiting may take a while longer.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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the first saturday of november, he was there. we attended the mass, it was raining and yet the usual crowd was there.
yes, he is not that huge personality. in fact i noticed too that i dont see much repeat people. meaning every time we attend the first saturday mass, i would see new faces. yes, there is just a small percentage of regular goers, but mostly i could say the people are first timers. the proof is upon receiving their scented petals, they would all raise the petal to check what image is embossed on the petal they got.
we go there for chuch because it is relatively close to where we live. and yes to someone who lives in the outskirts south of metro manila, i think it would be a night mare to go to san vicente, where the church is. google it if you are driving. if commuting, i think aim for buses thatr is from sta cruz, manila going to sapang palay vi marilao and get off at muzon. from muzon take the jeepney to sta maria and just tell the driver where to drop you.
to give you in a silver platter his schedule methinks, that is the most i could give:every first saturday at 12 noon. we are no the fanatics, just regular church goer and seem perturbed that there naysayers on what bro. carmelo does. he may be real, he may be fake, it would be interesting to know. on the other hand, it ill not hange our beliefs, because we simply go to church for GOD, not for bro.carmelo. but i repeat, not a bad idea to know if all the production drama he does is real or fake.
perhaps, next time we go for mass i could ask other ways to get in touch with him as in like asking for his cell number? now i remember there was some press people last time interviewing people and video taping the proceedings. i never really bothered finding out who they were.
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Hi saulsaul, please note Joanne Vavoso’s comment. She says she attended Bro. Carmelo Cortez’s religious service on November 21 in VA Beach. If by VA Beach she means Virginia Beach, then Bro. Carmelo was in the US just two days ago.
Contrast that with babu’s comment above that Bro. Carmelo held a prayer service on the first Saturday of October, 2011 in Sta. Maria, Bulacan, and you can appreciate the difficulty of catching his services.
Is Carmelo Cortez in the Philippine or in the US?
I’m not keen on investigating just to find out his whereabouts.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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I just went to a prayer service on Novemeber 21, 2011 in VA Beach hosted by brother Carmelo Cortez. I too also believe it is not a hoax, magic trix or whatever you want to call it. I saw for myself what transpired and also experienced an image appearing on my rose petal that was placed on my upper chest. “Sacred Heart of Jesus”. I suppose it is something one has to see for themself…
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knowledge is different from wisdom, even if you put here the best word or phrases about carmelo its still not enough to know the persons heart!!!
were bathcmates f manuel roxas high school quezon city…i think you would know more about him if you talk to him personally or ask his friends and class mates before regarding him!!!
since wer born in the same era i think wer somehow have same commonalities, if you know sto domingo, roxas church, christ the king these are like our playground before when we were kids or otherwise you will find us in all the basketball courts of quezon city, this is like our routine wen we were youngsters and if you are a churchgoer you’d end up a sakristan or member of a choir that time like wat happened to carmelo’ We would attend bible studies also before conducted by our teachers in their homes!!!
pope john paul ii was so famous that era and as kids were excited that he will visit the philippines, i think that was 1981 when he first came and with our thoughts that he will pass by quezon avenue and scout chuatoco street we got more excited!as far as i remember i would chase pope john paul vehicle (‘which is with the care of carmelo now)’ until i get tired shouting his name i was like 9yrs old that time subtract it and you would know when i was born!!!
dudugo n ilong ko hahahaha!!!sundan nyu lang ang kabataan nmin at kung sinu si carmelo s buhay ni pope john paul hanggang ngaun s tingin ko mahuhuli nyu kung bakit sy ngaun may ganitung biyaya!!!kung mapupuntahan nyu ang lugar ni carmelo near sto domingo church at ang kasulukan ng roxas quezon city e malalantad s mga mata ninyu ang napaka raming squatters isa ata sa pamilya ni carmelo noon ang hikahus s buhay at ako din nmn!
i just found out only nov25,2011 that he is now a visionary with facebook!!!i am an ofw, i think id like to see him next yr when i vacation!!!nalulungkot ako ksi di n rin ako nakakapag rosary gaya ng dati kasama ko ang aking nanay n pumanaw na!! lagi n lng ksi binabatikus ng mga tao ang tungkol ditu, wala ng tama at mali s mata natin at wl ng pagbuklod s pananampataya gaya noon!dumami ng marunung s kasalukuyan at marami ang nahila ng mga itu!!para s makakabasa i somehow hope for your enlightenment on this little message!!!GODBLESS…..
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Leodini, thank you for your thoughtful and respectful coverage on this issue. I am Catholic but am not convinced that the manifestations associated with Brother Carmelo are of a miraculous nature. Have you seen this video (and others of Brother Carmelo posted by the same user, from the same event), and, if so, what do you think? See http://youtu.be/Gatt_0Le3Hc
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Hi Dawn,
The video is inconclusive. It shows the bowl already filled with rose petals when the shot started. What happened before that, and what preparations were made prior to filling the bowl with petals, are anybody’s guess. I can’t draw any conclusions from watching the video.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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Leodini, thanks for your reply. The video to which I linked was Part 3, I think. If you click on the YouTube user’s name, you’ll see more videos from the same event, including Part 1, which is the longest and shows the petals being put into the bowl, as well as some of the other actions described by previous commenters.
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Hi Dawn,
Following your suggestion, I watched Part 1 of the video from the same YouTube user. At first, I was glad the camera operator focused on the bowl and the roses, but then he/she got misdirected and trained the camera somewhere else. At that time, the bowl was still resting on the table. When the camera went back to the bowl, Bro. Carmelo was holding it already.
What happened during the interval?
No one can tell for sure. The video cuts away at a crucial moment and renders itself a worthless witness.
However, the way the service is conducted looks suspicious to me. I always thought a religious service is conducted solemnly. This is the case of the other videos showing the petals being distributed—you hear religious hymns, the devotees wearing serious faces.
Not so on video Part 1, when the petals are still being prepared.
Judging from the accounts of witnesses, I always thought the rose petals are collected in a bowl and then immediately distributed to the faithfuls.
The video shows this isn’t the case. After the petals are placed in the bowl, they are left on the table, temporarily unattended to. A lot of other activities follow—noisily instead of solemnly. Bro. Carmelo is barking orders—I need a napkin, more bowls, styro cups, rosaries, water, volunteers, etc. He also asks to have the chairs and tables rearranged. One can hear a lot of scraping on the floor.
For me, the most telling part is when he distributes bowls of water to volunteers, asking these volunteers to go around the room, so people can dip their rosaries in the water.
Guess what? While people are dipping their rosaries in the bowls of water, who is watching the bowl of petals on the table? Nobody, not even the camera.
Yes, the camera has failed to catch the trick. Still, the dipping of the rosaries into the bowl of water is suspicious. It is a classic magician’s stratagem called “misdirection”.
If you believed in God, you wouldn’t think He would perform a miracle this crude.
David Copperfield’s Vanish of the Statue of Liberty is far more sophisticated.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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Leodini, I too was disturbed by the “busyness” of the scene. It was not a religiously contemplative atmosphere. Given that you are in the Philippines, you know better than I (a non-Filipino American) whether such busyness may be excused as a normal dimension of Filipino worship services.
What really set off alarm bells was that Brother Carmelo was acting as a faux priest. Not only did he set up his “miracle” on a mock altar, but later in the video (I forget which part–it may be in Part 8) he distributes what appear to be “miraculous” Communion hosts. (One of the commenters to your post likewise mentioned his performing such an alleged feat.) Theologically, there are many, many problems with a layman’s presenting himself as the source of Communion hosts (even if mediated by a “miracle”). To the best of my knowledge, the only approved Marian apparition in which a Communion host was made present outside of a Mass was at Fatima, when the minister of the Eucharist was an angel.
Brother Carmelo may be a layman seeking sincerely to spread the Gospel, but he has neither priestly nor angelic authority. For him to imply otherwise raises serious concerns about the legitimacy of his apostolate.
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Hi Dawn,
Thank you for mentioning the relevant Catholic doctrines. I learned them many years ago (perhaps from my catechism or from the Cursillo), but they have receded from my memory now. I guess worldly thoughts and concerns now fill my mind, preventing me to cite readily the lessons I learned from Sunday schools of long ago.
It’s good to be reminded of them. They help me start the day in contemplation.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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P.S. The smiley face in my comment above should have been the number eight.
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Dear Leodini,
So happy that my comments brought back memories that help you start the day in contemplation. As you may know, you as a magician have a very special patron saint: Don Bosco. See here: http://www.ibmring21.org/bosco.html . His feast day is coming up on January 31.
All the best,
Dawn
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Hi Dawn,
Thanks for the link. I didn’t know it even existed. Got to do some reading about Don Bosco.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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Hi Leodini, I just read about Cortez on the CNS( Catholic News Service) site through FB and directed readers to your blog. If this is a trick it can be damaging to the faith of those duped; there needs to a thorough investigation by Church leaders if there hasn’t been one already, and the public promptly notified of the results. Concerning your post: History is replete with violence, crusades, murders, rapes, genocides, witches on stakes and suicide bombings in the name of deities and religions, there is another side as well. How about the millions killed in the 20th century by those without faith, religion? Check out this article online: How Many Did Communist/Socialist Regimes Murder, by Captain Karl, R.J. Rummel.I get so tired of the historical accusations after I tell someone I’m Catholic, some people forget the recent past.
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Hi John,
I’m not sure how to respond. You lost me when you said, “I get so tired of the historical accusations after I tell someone I’m Catholic. Some people forget the recent past.”
You seem to be smarting from my comment: “History is replete with violence, crusades, murders, rapes, genocides, witches on stakes and suicide bombings in the name of deities and religions.”
I’m a Catholic, too. What I said is not a historical accusation. It is a statement of incontrovertible historical facts. I did not write it to single out Catholics. Rather, I wrote it to point out the irony of believing in God, professing to live by his teachings, and then resorting to violence to subdue the contrary beliefs of others.
You may want to re-read my comment. I was making an argument against intolerance. I was not absolving the Communists for their own share of atrocities to mankind.
Yes, the godless have resorted to violence too. I didn’t write about them, because they did not fit the point I was trying to make. However, now that you’ve mentioned them, I have to admit I’m appalled by the bloodshed, brutality, and systematic pillage of the godless and the faithless and the religion-less. (I’m appalled even though I have not yet read the link you sent me. I’m guessing it contains details more appalling than I could imagine.)
Now that I’ve spread the blame around, does that make the believers’ past sins less horrible?
We can all rise together in righteous indignation against the communists for their systematic atrocities, but does that make the believers’ heinous acts against humanity, done in the name of their gods and religions, less reprehensible?
I trust this is not sophistry. If a godless person commits murder, it is reprehensible. If a god-believing individual, who professes to live in righteousness, commits murder, in the name of his god, it is not simply reprehensible. It is hypocritically reprehensible.
My point is this: one cannot absolve the sins of his parents, or make them more acceptable to his conscience, by saying, “My neighbor is doing the same thing, anyway, so what’s the big deal?”
Stay magical,
Leodini
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http://captkarl.blogivists.com/2009/03/15/how-many-did-communist-regimes-murder/
God bless,
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Hi John, thanks for the link.
I need some time to digest it.
Merry Christmas.
Leodini
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Re: “…millions killed in the 20th century by those without faith, religion?…”
The Communists didn’t say ‘Onward Atheist soldiers’ or ‘Unbelieve or die.’ They didn’t kill because of atheism, they just happen to be non-believers. Pol Pot probably doesn’t even know what ‘atheism’ means! They killed because of their political ideology. Compare that to the devout Muslims who probably shouted ‘Allahu Akbar’ before ramming the Twin Towers with jetliners, or Torquemada who tortured Muslims and Jews before burning them at the stake for not converting to Catholicism, or the Crusaders who killed the infidel Muslims, Jews and Eastern Christians, or the Catholics and Protestants slaughtering each other in Ireland. There is a big difference, the examples I cited were murders committed in the name of religion. It is a historical fact that is hard to swallow for devout believers. Regardless, killing is of course, still wrong, whoever the perpetrator.
Thanks, Leodini. I think we’re on the same page.
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Thanks, Norm, for amplifying my thoughts. The examples you cited are spot on.
Best,
Leodini
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Leodini, I want to say a sincere thank you –
Rarely have I come across a site, where any such subject has been treated with as much respect and tolerance, not to mention intelligence, as it has here. Forgive me for saying so, but I think it may be do to both your Filipino and Catholic culture (however neglected you consider it). In any case, I think you have shown great courtesy and have had the patience and prudence of a saint!
My compliments go out as well to the many, believers or not, who have shown intelligence and respect in their dialogue.
For full disclosure, I am, and consider myself a well-versed and more importantly practicing Catholic, which in my book, just means that I know myself a sinner and know how far I fall short of the graces and love which God gives everyone of us (believers and unbelievers alike).
I would like to stress two points, for I have had a return to my faith that was brought about through the love of Our Lord’s mother. I was always interested in spiritual matters since very young – the paranormal, the miraculous, etc… I can say that I have actually witnessed things which I do not think can be reasonably explained. I could elaborate, but it might take a few pages just to relate. Enough to say, that I am a firm believer, in both the divine and the demonic. I always try to filter any of these events through a certain litmus test – Ask yourself, could this be done by a human being? Do not ask yourself what the motive might be – often times the human heart is so complex, that the motive, whether good or ill can be impossible to comprehend. Then if convinced, that it is not-of-this-realm, so to speak, do not jump to the conclusion that it is necessarily from God.
Evil can create the miraculous, even mimic what is holy. There is a reason the devil is called the father of lies – he is capable of telling a hundred truths in order to be believed in only once.
As a Catholic, I do have a problem, as one of the previous writers pointed out with the matter of the “miraculous hosts”. If indeed there is some sort of eucharistic wafer being “materialized” and proffered at these events – then something isn’t right. Particularly, that of the host floating in the water… I haven’t been present to any of this, but there is no way, miraculous anyhow, that the Body of Christ would be placed in a bowl of water with or without flowers through any divine agency.
What I did notice from the video was that the people seemed so interested in getting their petals that there does not seem to be any true or deep religious experience with all of this – to me, it all seems to stay at a very superficial level. The message should be the focus, not the little miracle from Heaven. Someone having so many of these petals, that they have a little album filled with them makes the miracle turn into the banal. I believe miracles do happen, usually at a critical point in our lives when God deems “shoring up” the soul is in order. Having this happen at-will through the agency of this man, turns it into the banal.
Without a doubt, the miracles help convince and stress a point – Jesus being the prime example – but if those who were his daily companions had stuck around just to see the lepers get cured, the blind see, the depth hear, and the dead rise, then the good news would never have been preached, without the flame of the Holy Spirit, we remain inert, spiritual kindle.
I think the Church, which has had its share of brilliant minds, knows at the highest levels all the ins-and-outs of the signs of true miracles & revelations – this being one of the reasons why it is so prudent before passing a positive judgment on any apparition or miracle. The stakes are too high – it’s not just the credibility of the Church as some cynics would be quick to point out – but more importantly, it’s the faith of the flock that is at stake.
As someone pointed out already, whether the miracle is true or not, the faith should be there and remain.
Thank you for putting up with the spiritual talk…
Now on the purely mundane, I know magicians aren’t supposed to tell their tricks, but seeing as this is not a trick you would normally perform, or that the incredible Randi would have no trouble showing to a large television audience – how would you go about getting the image on the petals? From the previous post, where the mention was made of the image appearing before their eyes “like a Polaroid” – then, this would suggest, if trickery was involved of course, a chemical reaction, much like a Polaroid or invisible ink. A chemical reaction caused by oxidation, a reaction with the oxygen in the air – which would explain why the petals would have to be in a bowl of water. Just peel some potatoes and place one underwater in a pan then leave one out in the air. The one in the air will brown fairly quickly, the ones in the water won’t – sounds like the same thing, only quicker. As for the smell of roses, there is a possible explanation as to how that could be accomplished. Simply putting a tiny bit of oil of roses in the bowl before adding the water, whether in a liquid or dry powder form will create such an effect. The oil will naturally float to the surface of the water and the rosaries being dipped into the water will particularly be coated with it as they are being pulled out. These oil are readily available throughout the world, I would imagine even more so in the orient, since most of the ones I have seen in the US seem to come from Asia.
Anyhow, Leodini, again thank you, and please let us know your opinion on the matter.
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Hi Langelot, thank you for dropping by and reading this blog entry and the comments, and then sharing your thoughts with us.
I’m amazed you think like a magician. Sometimes the simplest tricks can stump lay people. If the rose petal images were indeed produced by trickery, the solutions you mused about, theoretical and simple though they may be, could be workable.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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If these images are not supernatural (from God or the devil certainly debatable) there has to be a highly skill artist/engraver well hidden in the back room to keep this hoax going for these many years. The fine detail of these images is so impressive there has to be some plates to stamp such images. This would be delicate task with too much pressure the petals would tear or bruise and or not be clear and distinct. There is one more significant fact – both sides of the petals look the same neither side has the more dominant image. Could any pressure type image produce such result? The image looks like it is inside the petal not just on the surface. No amount of slight of hand, misdirection, chemical process, or any other form of trickery alone can produce such fine images. If a hoax it has to be done by some means and by some one. These are tiny pieces of art and there must be an artist responsible. What artist with such a talent would not want to be known for such beautiful images? As I have mentioned in one of my earlier posts I received an image of Blessed Mother holding the Baby Jesus in her arms with such detailed you can see her finger nails, but only if you use a strong magnifying glass. I took a picture with a run of the mill digital camera four years ago of a petal with the face of Christ with a crown of thorns and had it enlarged to a 5″x7″ size. It is as clear as the rose petal image was which helps demonstrate how clear and detailed the rose petal image is. I am not certain if anyone could do such a small image even with today’s high tech equipment. If it can be done it would not come cheap. This is something I would welcome comments on by some one with expertise on engraving or laser engraving. Producing several hundred such plates/engravings would take a tremendous amount of time and expense. The images are on fresh petals that in all respects look like they were just plucked from the bud. Any rose petal, especially white ones, the only kind he uses, starts looking old within a couple hours at the most. As to the motive for such a grand hoax the greater the difficulty the more reason to question a motive.
When Carmelo does these services in the USA he generally does 5 to 8 in a 12 day time frame going up to 400 miles in a two day time period passing out thousands of petals. There would have to be a shadowy group following him around stamping all these petals since he usually stays at homes of people I know and could not possibly have the time or the place to perform such a tedious task. How difficult would it be to keep this fraud going for 10 to 15 years and at what expense?
I have never been to one of Carmelo’s services where there were “miraculous hosts” or anything to do with hosts.
As to the issue of a scrap book of these petals I guess I do not see how that impacts the supernatural nature.
Thanks for posting this and I look forward to seeing all comments.
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Wonderful post SaulSaul – I do have to agree with you on many points you have made. Firstly, without a doub, some of these images are indeed a bit mind bogling in the details (fingernails, 3d perpective etc…) – I have to admit that I have many, many standard catholic medals (made in the US mostly) and that most of the images on the rose petals are easily recognizable as certain Saints, Our Lord, etc… but none of these images (except maybe the one of the “pondering Cherubim”) strikes me as the exact same from any medal I’ve seen – i.e. point given for the miraculous.
The trick (if there is one), would be in finding an exact match in Catholic iconography (by that I mean what is commercially available out there). I would focus on the Padre Pio images since he was beatified not so long ago (relatively speaking) and his medals only started appearing maybe in the past 10 years or so.
Personally, I do think that if two people get the same identical image (which seems to happen frequently), then in my mind, something is wrong. I do not presume to tell God how to work a miracle, but wouldn’t God have enough talent that no two images would be the same, after all aren’t we all, who are undoubtedly His creation, amazingly individual?
Also, and this might be my personal bias… the “pondering Cherubim”/” thinking angel” picture is not my cup of tea. I know this picture (originally by Raffaello Sanzio da Urbino) was particularly popular in the early to mid 90’s. To me, I find it theologically empty, the the “oh how cute” factor that a lady (usually sweet and aged) might have with it, but what message is God, if it is God, trying to convey?
If I follow my religion and receive the sacraments frequently, certainly I would love to hear any of the visionaries, be it Ivanka from Medjugorje, this gentleman from the Philippines and many others, which I have done in the past… But there is a point, and sometimes it might be difficult to comprehend unless you have actually lived it – where all this becomes stagnent and unproductive. “Blessed are those who beleive without seeing”. Well many of us have felt touched, one way or another, either through these petals, or through something else – we need to live the message, spread the gospel so to speak. If you already believe, and the message was good, in other words, the tree “bore good fruit” then what need do we have of more petals more miracles? Give the miracles to those who need them (there are plenty).
Now again on the purely pratical and mondane –
Why just white roses? It sounds to me like a better medium than red or pink roses. Why…, well, you know how people can color carnations – they just put white carnations in water with blue, green, red, pink (and any other color you might think of) coloring. Well, then, would I want to make some fake miraculous petal, then I would take white roses, place them in water to which I would have added some chemical a bit of chlorine? some lemon juice? who knows? Then maybe the petals are pressed, to a medal, just the eloctrolisis reaction to the metal might cause the image through oxidation. I think it is possible to fake and maybe even quite simple. The trick being, having enough of these for the events and being able to “plant” them without being caught while people are distracted. Apparently there are those at these events that seem to get just blank petals. Has anyone checked to see, particularly at a big event what the ratio of miraculous vs non miraculous petals are. In any case, all this is something that would need to be tested. I will remain on the fence as to wether this is miraculous or not, mostly out of respect for others feelings and out of humility, knowing, that no matter how much intellectual talent God might give, I cannot possibly understand his way and He can work a miracle any which way He likes, with or without my permission.
My faith remains
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Forgive me for double posting, but just to add a bit to what I wrote earlier, and so as to clarify that I do believe in the miraculous (but have become more critical in my thinking over time) – I have personally known and brought two “visionaries” to be scientifically studied (electroencephalogram during an apparition) at a famous hospital in France (which shall remain nameless) and had several interviews with them and Father René Laurentin (a renown theologian and mariologist). I can tell you that I firmly believe that Our Lady had definitely appeared to at least one of the two at some point – I have witnessed things that I truly believe cannot be explained naturally/scientifically, the messages were all in accordance with the Church’s teachings and bore much good fruit – i.e. pray, fast, the sacrements – yet, I can tell you that I am convinced that something went wrong. One of them, accepting in obedience the advice of his spiritual director and of the local bishop retreated from public life (so to speak) and leads apparently a normal life and does not speak of his apparitions (if he still has them). The other, on the contrary, about whom I now believe was involved with the occult at some point, still goes on the “grand tours” much as Carmelo does, going often to the Orlando area to various rosary groups where he is treated like a king.
These people have traveling expenses, the Church certainly does not pay for them and neither do they. It is always common (sometimes wealthy) people who sponsor their trips. I have seen great piety from many looking for cures, healing both physical and spiritual, yet I have been greatly disapointed by much of what I have seen. It is well known in religious circles, that where there is truly great graces given and much spiritual fruit is borne, evil will insidously infiltrate itself so as to derail it all. I believe this is why the Chruch, will usually not approve an apparition until the visionary/visionaries have passed away. All of us being human, there is too much chance of our going astray (even after seeing Our Lord or Lady) and leading/scandalizing those who once beleived into total disbelief.
Keep in mind as well, that if you follow the Church’s doctrines, that public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle (John). The rest, wether its Saint Francis, Saint Theresa of Avila, Saint Margaret Mary (the Sacred Heart), Sister Faustina (the Divine Mercy), Padre Pio, La Salette, Fatima or Lourdes is all considered private revelations worthy of belief, but not dogma, you can be a good catholic and not necessarily have to believe in it. Those revelations cannot add or take away anything to the faith. But God knows they have all enriched the faith in general.
Leonidi, thank you again for the opportunity to voice my thoughts and my faith through your blog, so openly and without the fear of being criticized or misunderstood.
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Hi Langelot, you are welcome and thank you also for sharing your thoughts. You are endowed not only with the gift of knowledge but also with the gift of a strong faith. Not many people are similarly endowed.
There’s no need to apologize. I welcome your comments and appreciate your taking the time to write them. I’m sure many of the readers find enlightenment in your posts as I have.
God bless.
Leodini
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Over the years, I have attended two services with Bro Camello and have received some very beautiful images on rose petals.
I now dedicate one hour a week for adoration at my parish to spend that time with Christ our King in worship and thanksgiving. In the adoration chapel, they have just placed two statues. One of St. Joseph and child and one of our Virgin Mother. The Virgin Mother statue is stunning and the artist has captured her youth realistically portraying her as a teenager. I have never seen that before, she has always looked much older. Anyway, I always bring some kind of flowers to place by her statue, preferably roses.. This past Thursday night I placed an Orchid.
As I was praying the rosary, I noticed there was a bouquet of white roses on the floor in front of the small altar. White roses, the kind Bro Camello uses. I thought, “Why not eliminate the middle man and pray for the Blessed Mother to place an image on a rose petal for me?”
There was another adorer present and I didn’t want to grab a petal with her present so I waited until she left. Finally alone, I took one of the largest petals on the largest rose in the bouquet and returned to the pew . Closing my eyes and finishing my rosary, I felt a warmth in my palm. (If you’ve read my above post, you’ll see that I had experienced this at one of Bro. Camello; services.) I did not look down at my petal until I had finished my rosary and…………………no image.
I wasn’t disappointed it doesn’t change my belief. I looked again to see if maybe it would develop but no only this time it was curling and taking shape. I was amazed at what I was seeing.
(I am not a magician. I can screw up even the simplest of card trick so in this case rather than think I am a magician, better to just flat out call me a liar.) I took the petal home and placed it on a shelf above my bed. The next morning, I got up and my wife was in the shower. I had not seen her since before going to adoration the evening before. (My hour is midnight to 1am Friday morning.) Excitedly I retrieved the petal, placed it in the palm of my had went into the bathroom and not telling my wife of my experience at adoration, not even telling her that what I had in my palm was a rose petal, I asked her to use her imagination and tell me what she thought I was holding in my hand.
Without hesitation, she told me.
My thirteen year old awoke and with no background to the contents in the palm of my hand, I asked.
Without hesitation, he told me.
My seventeen year old came home. Same thing….I asked, without hesitaion, he told me.
I then went down the block to my 81 year old neighbor. I asked her to let her imagination go wild. Look at what I am holding in the palm of my hand and tell me.
Without hesitation, she told me.
The rose petal that refused to bear an image for me had molded itself and shaped itself to the image of the Blessed Mothers habit just like the new statue.
I don’t know how to imbed a photograph but I will send any doubter one.
My email is smg1949@mail.com.
“When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me………..”
God Bless us all.
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Hi Steve,
Thank you for sharing your experience.
However, without meaning to dampen your faith, or downplay something you consider miraculous, let me point to you what the skeptics might say as regards the petal that molded itself into the shape of the Virgin Mary’s habit.
What you observe might be pareidolia which, as Wikipedia defines it, “is a psychological phenomenon involving a vague and random stimulus (often an image or sound) being perceived as significant. Common examples include seeing images of animals or faces in clouds, the man in the moon or the Moon rabbit, and hearing hidden messages on records played in reverse.”
You may want to take a closer look at the petal-that-turned-into-a-habit to see if it’s supernaturally caused. Surely, a miracle or sign from heaven can withstand a closer scrutiny.
Best.
Leodini
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Leodini,
Without a doubt I expected, if anything, an image to appear on my rose petal. Certainly not a transformation of the petal itself to create the form of Mother Mary’s habit. I was not consciously expecting anything such as that. But in my case, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk it off as pareidolia.
Now if you can only explain my wife, my sons and my neighbor, without having any knowledge of my experience, without any hesitation at all, immediately forming the same conclusion. Coincidental pareidolia? Such a thing?
“And when the broken hearted people living in the world agree
There will be an answer, let it be.”
Peace be with you.
Steve.
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And to the skeptics I say…….
“For though they may be parted, there is still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be……
”
“
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Hi Steve,
Of course, I cannot explain how your wife, sons and neighbor independently arrived at the same conclusion. Much as I wish to appear like an expert, I don’t have all the answers to life’s mysteries. If all mysteries could be explained away, I would not have a job today as magician and mystifier.
Interestingly, Joseph Dunninger, a pioneer performer of magic on radio and television, once said, “For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation will suffice.”
I find it fascinating that in discourses about religion, the believers and the skeptics can use Dunniger’s words to describe the opposing camp, and they would both sound right.
Best,
Leodini
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Leodini,
I appreciate your response.
I know that the original subject of this blog was whether or not a magician could imprint images on rose pedals and I assume the answer to be yes. Although I think it highly impossible in Bro Cammilo’s service. My experience, sans Bro. Camillo in the adoration chapel, with a rose pedal was not something ‘magical’, which I think further strengthens the integrity of Bro. Camillo’s ministry. I doubt seriously that a magician could come anywhere close to imitating no less duplicating my experience of early Friday morning.
Now that my pedal has dried and lost it’s three dimensional form, it is if I can see the image of the Blessed Mother under her veil.
How’s that for pareidolia?
I believe in magic.
I believe in miracles.
“And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.”
Thank you for your thoughts on this subject.
You have a very interesting blog.
Peace be with you.
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I have attended his service yesterday. Carmelo is a simple man who wants us to pray for our priest and the Catholic Church. Miracle or not you have to believe that he is a medium. I do believe him, we need miracles and plenty of them. So many of us forget that there is a God in our lives and only turn to him when we are in need. My prayers to all faith hope and charity. And by the way we Catholics do not need any scientific evidence about our faith. We believe in God, the Holy Spirit…
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I wanted to give Steve my support in a way. I am personally more inclined to believe in your miracle than I am to believe in Carmelo’s petals. I am sure that if you did get a miracle, it is because of your faith in God (not in Carmelo).
I remember reading about the original occurences in Lipa (Philippines) where these rose petals were inexplicably falling from the sky (wether with or without images) in the late 1940’s I believe – that, to me, is much more believable.
I like very much Steve’s thinking of eliminating the middle man. I just can’t help but feel that a miracle “on-demand” as seems to happen with Carmelo just “cheapens” the message as a whole. How many truly come to these gatherings to hear the message vs. to get a miraculous petal? How many come, out of a sense of curiosity just to see a miracle?
And yet it is human nature, and I am not above it. Jesus Himself knew our human nature and performed miracles himself. But he did also say, “Blessed are those who believe (in God) without seeing” – either the scientific proof or the miraculous petal.
“He hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart. He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble – The Magnificat”.
My personal prayer – Lord, let me put to good use the mind that you have given me, but keep me humble and childlike that I may still wonder at your creation and still have faith in the goodness of my fellow man.
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I received some myrrh from the Icon of Hawaii described in the following site. Interestingly, it has the exact same scent, a very strong rose scent, as the oil from the rose petals after Carmelo pours water over them in his services.
://www.visionsofjesuschrist.com/weeping741.html
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To produce such images on a delicate petal I wonder if we need to consider the use of light. Perhaps a template with the image carved through it, from which an intense light could be shown through with perfect focus… perhaps UV light. Or an image that is projected from the light source onto the petal, much like a slide projection onto a screen, but in these cases a small image focused onto the petal with UV light. This could be done quite rapidly.
I’ve never seen the ceremony. My in-laws have been a couple times. They don’t talk about it a whole lot, but they find it quite amazing.
Disclaimer: I am Catholic. I have no desire to discover he is a fake. I hope he is not, otherwise he is deceiving many people and his soul is at risk. The image may well have a spiritual source. But even then we must be careful since it could be from the devil too.
Cheers
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Well after reading this blog. All I can add is that I am a Mexican American, living in South Texas. I am some one who also had a disbeif in religious miracles, until I went to a service that a Fillipino friend of ours (a physician) and his wife invited us to. Although I believed miracles were very possible, I had not witnessed one first hand.
Being a skeptic to a point, I also dabble with magic tricks and have since I was a child…anyway I went with a open mind. I too wanted to keep my eyes focused on Brother Carmelo the entire time – trying to see if somehow he would use misdirection or slight of hand. But, to my astonishment, the roses were plucked freshly from their stems by three priests that also attended the service.
They were then placed in a clear bowl and I kept my eyes on the bowl the entire time, Brother Carmelo then mixed some unopened bottle water and asked for someone to place a rosary in the water, still, I kept my eyes on the roses next to Carmelo and suddenly the room filled with the aroma of roses. Brother Carmelo then proceeded to mix the rose petals in the bowl with his hands.
He never reached into his pockets or anywhere else, remember, I kept my sight on him to see if he would use misdirection. He never did. He poured rose water on the roses and proceeded to to distribute them one by one.
I received three roses that night, all different images on them. I was amazed but somehow still thought that Brother Carmelo and the host for the evening could have doctored the roses somehow, so I asked if he could provide a service at my house with our own roses, which he agreed.
I invited 50 guests to attend our service. I bought the roses myself from a local flower shop and kept them at our house. He did the same type of service and there is no way he could have taken these roses and used some sort of device to engrave them. He was at our house for no more that one hour and a half.
So all the skeptics out there, please attend a service first then see for yourself. All though I am not very religious, I am astounded with what occurred and I now believe in miracles.
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88 thoughts on “Rose Petal Images: Miracle or Not?”
A pleasant day to all readers. After I leave a message, it might go to 89 or so. Or still maybe 88. The number 88 strikes me because it is special. My guardian angel must have brought me here and I just be happy to leave a message.
After going through all of the threads, we could see testimonies and affirmations as well as disbelief and misunderstandings that leads to verbal conflicts. Everyone has something to say but here are some statements, which had made impact to me, where I could start my reflection:
1. “TRICK, MAGIC CALL IT WHAT EVER YOU WANT, BUT FOR ME, COMING FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART…IT ITS HE AS THE INSTRUMENT OF OUR GOD AND OF VIRGIN MARY MOTHER OF GOD WHO WORKS ON IT.” -Florinda
2. “I will not be surprised if years from now, Brother Cortez’ could lose his healing gift. God could take it away. Then at that time, he could be boneheaded and try to do magical tricks to make it look real just to continue the service. Because people do donate generously in the service and the sin of greed could take over. At that point, any miracle that he may have done in the past even if they are true miracles would be considered fake.” -Al
3. And coming from Leodini himself:
“Over the years, most of them have developed pragmatic views of life’s mysteries. Just as a surgeon would become less squeamish at the constant sight of blood and gore on the operating table, a magician will regard miracles with disinterest, if not utter disbelief. This is because trickery, artifice, subterfuge, and illusion have desensitized him over the years of performing his own brand of miracles he calls magic.”
“I believe the sad thing about being a magician is that most of them have lost their sense of wonder—the very thing that drew them to magic in the first place. They no longer have the childlike readiness to marvel at wondrous things they don’t understand. This is true when they watch other magicians perform magic. This is equally true when they watch someone perform “miracles” or hear him claim supernatural powers.”
“In most part, a magician’s skepticism emanates from the loss of his childlike wonder, and not from the prospect of being ridiculed by his peers.”
I acknowledge Leo “Leodini” Domapias for having this post and Joe for asking the question. The trend became quite entertaining because of magic and miracle yet disturbing as to rising criticism and skepticism. In fairness to Leodini, I admire his fair judgement and objective responses. Not only is he an awesome magician but a great writer as well. And as for my thoughts, here it goes:
As to what Florinda said, “Coming from the bottom of my heart!” How did we response to the miracle? Did we understand the message being told to us by the manifestations of the images? I was told by a visionary friend that manifestations would differ from person to person according to what God would want them understand. These manifestations coming from visionaries may be through the Blessed Mother because she is our intercessor for her son, Our beloved Lord Jesus Christ. I myself have encountered this miracle of rose scent and shower of glitters out of nowhere without the presence of rose flowers and plants and even my visionary friend nearby. I was also a victim of skepticism and criticisms by my fellow charismatic group for having shared my experience and trying to convince them. It was frustrating. That is why I was told repeatedly not to tell anyone of my experience and let the manifestation reveal itself to them for it is personal. God will be the one who draws a person to Him.
The statement of Al is very true. While visionaries have healing gifts, only if God lets them to be. We do not know if they lose these gifts whether from their missions is already complete, for doing it fraud, or for just ending it. There have been many visionaries God send and a lot more stories behind them. Some obeyed while others do not. Some wishes to be one and some are fraud because only God qualifies. It is for us to tell if they are true or not through our discernment. How did we feel during the encounter… Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. I don’t know if Leodini has already gone to a conclusion by now but his answer “I do not know” would suffice. I think it would be unfair for him to be asked to investigate for the sake that we would believe that something is a miracle if he does believed. He had already told that it is in the Vatican and Church leader’s jurisdiction. If they still have no conclusion either, exercise patience. Let us all respect free will for God do the same. We should be vigilant over ourselves in action and words. Jesus said, “do not judge and you won’t be judged; do not condemn and you won’t be condemned; forgive and you will be forgiven” (Luke 6:37). “Being a visionary is not that easy,” says my friend and continued, “but if it is Your Will, let it be done!” As the Lord Jesus replied to God our father.
I can also relate what Leodini stated regarding wonders. It is tragic when you lost your childlike wonder (Matthew 18:3). As I often see this manifestations, it no longer becomes a phenomenal to me but as a normal occurrence. I later started to ask for even more sophisticated manifestations. A sign of lacking faith. Good thing my friend was so patient enough to mold me to focus on God (His message, presence and love) rather than the manifestation alone. Well, it could be a struggle for some of us to keep the faith alive or be joyful with it. True miracles can only be experience by a heart open to God. And once you feel it, love for yourself and neighbor will overflow. In this way, you too can be “the greatest miracle in the world” (as in the book of Og mandino).
Sorry if I had made it this long but there are still many things that could rise up with this blog. Yet in the end, such questions that will matter for living more consciously would be:
“Am I encountering God in the things I do?”;
“Do I honor God from the bottom of my heart?”
“Did I live my life as what God ought me to live when He gave me life?”
Hope this helps in faith. Celebrate life. Cheers!
And Lord, let Your Will be done!
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Hello everybody, my magician friend Ted Orlando of Denmark has a technical hard time to post his comment, so he emailed it to me instead. On his behalf, I’m posting his thoughts below:
Dear Leo, (having technical problem,entering a message into the
Facebook- prepared box of “comment” let me write to you this way.)
Hard daring to hurt religious emotions and really wishing there really is happening a miracle, (Why is there no WORLDWIDE publication of it??!!)
(A holy wonder that will turn the world around.)
Not having seen life nor video of the “phenomenon petal images” allow myself to let the part of my mind as a magician express what I would discuss with you as fellow-magician had we both watched such presentation ourselves.
Apart from personal religious feelings we would as professional conjurers
automatically also consider to have witnessed a “new effect” of our art.
Therefore but not to embarrass any religious feelings, give me permission to lay out my opinion of the growing of (petal) images,merely from my magic point of view.
Under this magical aspect I would base an “explanation” by our occasional usual misdirecting lay audiences by a well hidden SWITCH (unnoticeable by them ) of,
( in this case, clean petals (stored/sealed up before/checked) to GAFFED ONES at the needed moment.
A chemical reaction could develop a pre-drawn picture to emerge time delayed and/or growing slowly by contact with water.
Think of the original fork or spoon bending effect physically prepared BEFORE by a freezing process of the item, then bending back with slight pressure under normal temperature.This I think was the original way.
A real wonder for laymen.
You fairly express, you will not write a verdict, not having witnessed
any life presentation of the growing images yourself, but you are too much a
pro not to eliminate a magic “solution”.
Magically yours,
Ted
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Attempting to explain a mystery by saying what if is a weak analysis and brings no real understanding or explanation. By saying: “A chemical reaction could develop a pre-drawn picture to emerge time delayed and/or growing slowly by contact with water” Ted is really saying what if there was such a chemical? Not that there is one.
My question: What chemical would do this on fresh rose petals with out a visible trace or detectable odor? Well, I guess there could be some such chemical, as long long as you can imagine it, some would say, it is possible, regardless if any one knows of one or not! Similar to me saying, I have this simple cure for cancer it is a pill that cures cancer. Some day there actually maybe such a pill but no one knows of one now!
No one, including Ted, has made any real attempt to explain how Carmelo does 3-4 services in 4-5 nights in an 200-300 miles area staying with local host families traveling with a local sponsor to these services which usually last 1-2 hours before the roses are distributed. At each service 800 to 1200 perfectly fresh petals are distributed. Nothing so far has remotely explained how so many of these fresh petals are produced that have highly detailed images, without disturbing, tearing or bruising these delicate petals or how both sides of the petal has what appears to be the same or original image with no evidence of stamping or indentation!
Just obtaining this many white roses, keeping them fresh while traveling from place to place all the while unseen by his hosts would be nothing short of a miracle in itself! This does not even include the time it would take to stamp these petals with a mulitude of various Christian images (images that number in the thousands) that perfectly fit the varing sizes of petals, in addition, these images are like snow flakes no two are exactly alike! All of this would take a little more than some clever “misdirection”. Also interesting these services have going on for over 10 years with thousands of services and not a single person has come forward to say they have seen any thing that resembles a hoax or they have been part of such a long running hoax! I am certain there have been plenty of astute skepics over these many years attending these services. At one time, I was a skeptic, who had witnessed many of these services up close while looking for any type of misdirection or anything not straight forward.
Regardless of what one does white rose petals do not remain fresh looking once taken off the bud for more than 3-4 hours at best, in addition, any handling reduces this time dramatically! This gives only a couple hour window prior to the start of these services for the rounding up, stamping this many petals for services night after night! What a highly anxiety producing task! A small army of Gnomes working out of Carmelo’s back pack just may be the best explanation, especially for all those non-believers!
Pax
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Leodini,
Are you still alive? I sure hope so.
I came to hear of Carmelo Cortez about two days ago and then I found this beautifully hosted forum today.
About the site, I would quote Langelot somewhere above who put it best –
‘Rarely have I come across a site, where any such subject has been treated with as much respect and tolerance, not to mention intelligence, as it has here.’
Please let me know if you are still around to keep this going.
thanks,
jose
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Hi Jose,
I’m here…just busy going from one gig to another. I also had a full evening show in one of the biggest theater in the country. The show required months of preparation and rehearsals and kept me away from writing on this blog.
If you want to add your thoughts on the rose petal topic, you are welcome to do so.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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Sent you an email last week. Not that I need a reply. Just wondering if you had a chance to read it
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Hi Jose,
I received your email and enjoyed reading your thought-provoking insights on the subject.
I just wish that you would consent to publishing it in the comment section of the article, so other readers who have been following the topic would likewise have the same thought-provoking experience as I had.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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Leodini,
Your observation much earlier about magicians ..
“A magician well-versed in his art will not easily accept unexplained phenomena as miracles. Over the years,
………………………………….In most part, a magician’s skepticism emanates from the loss of his childlike wonder, and not from the prospect of being ridiculed by his peers.”
…made such an impression on me that I added that in a diary of quotes I have maintained for over 30 years with the entry ‘from Philippino Magician Leodini. ‘.
It is a marvelous piece of insight on the human behavior.
From the way you moderate this blog, you strike me as a remarkably level headed fellow and a gifted writer.
But something baffles me.
How come you have not taken a more active role in seeking out the Truth (if there is such a thing) about these rose petals after so many years of listening to stories from others. I saw somewhere that Carmelo tried to contact you once. Is that true? Or am I imagining it. I also saw that you have trouble finding his whereabouts despite repeated attempts. Is it that he conducts his affairs in such a manner that only people he could trust or those who he believes could be fooled easily are close to the action always. I don’t know. Or am I to believe that, perhaps, you may have lost ‘some of that childlike wonder that you had in you as well.’. I hope not but it is worth reflecting on.
I know you have other priorities just like any of us but this is a big enough story that could make waves in the catholic community around the world if the truth were known. If there is some trickery going on, then a magician or someone like him who performs sleight of hand is better suited to the task of unearthing it than a regular guy like me I believe.
-jose
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Hi Jose,
Yes, Bro. Carmelo once called me on my mobile phone after one of his believers sent an irate response to some of the comments on this blog. (If you want to refer to it, her message is sixth from the top, and my reply is right after it.) Bro. Carmelo called to apologize for her. I think it was a classy act of him to go out of his way to let me know he did not approve of his follower’s outburst.
Bro. Carmelo’s schedule of services is not publicized in the media. And since my circle of friends and associates are not church-going, religious-event attendees, word-of-mouth about his whereabouts has not reached me. Keep in mind that Metro Manila is comprised of 16 cities and has an overall population of 11,553,427 people, according to the 2014 census. So finding where he is going to perform his next miracle, while not impossible to do, would entail great effort on my part, require lots of my time and even extract some money from my pocket to accomplish. The toll of finding Bro. Carmelo is just so heavy for me that I’m not willing to pay it.
Lastly, I am an entertainer, not a debunker. In the Philippines, being a debunker can be unhealthy. Take note of the 6th comment above how one rose petal image believer reacted to skeptical comments on this blog. Imagine how these believers will react if somebody doggedly follows Bro. Carmelo around for the purpose of exposing him.
Still, as I previously said, if somebody hands me on a platter a video (with no cut-away) of Bro. Carmelo Cortez’s performing his miracle, I will gladly analyze it and tell everybody if trickery is involved.
Stay magical,
Leodini
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Here is Carmelo’s 2015 schedule for Oho & Northern Kentucky area.
/Users/paulmeyer/Desktop/Carmelo’s2015schedule.doc
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2015 CARMELO CORTEZ HEALING SERVICES
Tuesday, September 1, 2015
St. Patrick’s Parish
3285 Mills Road
Taylor Mill, Kentucky 41015
859-356-2171
Rosary 7:00 PM
Wednesday, September 2, 2015
Saint James the Less Church
1652 Oakland Park Avenue
Columbus, Ohio 43224
614-262-1179
Rosary 6:00 PM-Mass 6:30 PM
Friday, September 4, 2015
Our Lady of the Holy Spirit Center
5440 Moeller Avenue
Norwood, Ohio 45212
513-351-9800
Rosary 6:30 PM Mass 7:15PM
Sunday, September 6, 2015
St. Ann Parish
2900 W Galbraith Rd, Cincinnati, OH 45239 (513) 521-8440
7 PM
Looks like there were issues on opening up my attachment. Hopefully this works!
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I just got back from a mass with Brother Carmelo about 15 mins ago! It was at Saint Thomas the Apostle in Pa. it was awesome! I got my rose petal & there is definitely a face on it! I have to put it in the Bible for 5-10 days & see if it changes or gets clearer. I saw the roses sitting on the alter before the mass started.. parishioners we’re bringing In bouquets of white roses that THEY brought- so they weren’t played around with before hand. The entire room smelled of roses. It was incredible❤️
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Hi Beth, thanks for chiming in. It’s been a long time since we last received news about Brother Carmelo.
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