Rose Petal Images: Miracle or Not?
I received an interesting email from Joe D’Mello of the US. I share it with the readers. My response follows right after Joe’s letter.
Hello Leodini,
I live in the US. I did some research on the net and found that you are one of the leading magicians in the Philippines.
Do you know of Carmelo Cortez in the Philippines who makes sacred images appear on rose petals? Here is a link to some information about him:
What is your opinion as a professional magician? Do you believe that this is a miracle? I would be grateful to get your opinion.
Thanks and best regards,
Joe
Hi Joe,
Thank you for your letter. I’m glad you found me on the Internet and trust me to answer your question.
In sharing my opinion, I will not do an Amazing Randi burst-the-bubble-and-do-the jig act. If you asked Randi this question, he would probably play with gusto his part as the Patriarch of skepticism in the whole universe. That means, he would answer your question bluntly and then dance the Macarena for having shown you your gullibility quotient.
Forgive him for he is a skeptic.
I’m a skeptic, too. But I’d rather break it to you gently. More or less the same information, just served in a different style.
From your letter, I can’t tell if you are a believer, a skeptic or someone in between—an open-minded searcher of the truth.
To answer your first question, no, I don’t know Carmelo Cortez. He had been in the news a couple of years ago and maybe continues to get a few column inches of newspaper mention now and then, but I haven’t heard of him till you told me about him in your email.
You see, in the Philippines—where ignorance sometimes mixes with Catholicism—miracle workers, faith healers, seers, modern-day prophets and charismatic preachers are dime-a-dozen. Every now and then some of them grab media attention because of their miraculous works, wonders, bleeding statues and other oddities.
Many of these miracle men and women fizzle out after a week or two of basking in media spotlight, unmasked as frauds, their miracles found to be hoaxes. A few, however, survive long periods of scrutiny and, over the years, have built ardent base of followers and believers. So far, not one has been officially declared genuine by the Catholic church, which follows a stringent process for recognizing miracles based on its centuries-old standards.
I will, therefore, take a guarded stance, just like the Catholic church, in answering your question of whether I believe Carmelo Cortez’s rose petal images are miracles. To be fair to Carmelo (I gather from newspaper accounts he is a good person), my answer is “I don’t know”.
I have not seen the actual images on the petals (although I’ve seen photos of them). I have not seen how he performed his “miracles”. Since I cannot rely wholly on the report of the author of the article you provided (in magic we have this so-called false witness phenomenon; please read my article In Praise of False Witnesses), it is difficult to say categorically if Carmelo produced the rose petal images by supernatural means/divine intervention or by devious means.
After that gigantic hem and haw, let me give you a straight answer for a change. Someone with knowledge in magic (or printing, engraving, coin minting) can produce images on rose petals by using what we magicians would euphemistically call method (not trick) of the trade. While I don’t accuse Carmelo of using magic tricks to produce those petal images, I would dare say that those same images can be produced using natural, not divine, methods—if you choose to do so.
Over at his website, Randi divulges one possible method. You may want to head over there if you are curious about how you can produce images of saints on rose petals by natural means.
Here’s the link: Farce-of-the-Week via Fox-TV. You have to scroll down a bit to find the specific discussion on image-bearing rose petals, as the article also discusses stigmata, among several other topics.
If you have follow-up questions, please don’t hesitate to leave them on the comments box below. I’m here to help.
Stay magical,
Leodini
Hi Leodini,
Thanks for your very thorough response! I, like you, would take the “I don’t know” stand because I have insufficient evidence to either prove or to disprove the miraculous claim. I greatly appreciate your very informative and interesting nuggests of opinions and information, and also the link to Randi’s site!
It appears to me (after researching this on the web) that Carmelo has a pretty ardent following in the Philippines, including many at high levels of Government, and is even a “brother” in the church, which would appear to me like the Catholic Church in the Philippines tacitly acknowledges his rose-petal phenomenon as being miraculous. He has been doing this for many many years now, so it is rather surprising to me that no one has asked for a rigorous scientific investigation of this phenomenon. Also, if Carmelo is truly an instrument of the Virgin Mary, he should have no problem or reluctance whatsoever with such an investigation because would have nothing to hide. So, my follow-up question to you would be:
Why do you think that after so many years of this phenomenon, no investigation has been carried out by the Catholic Church in the Philippines?
Thanks again for your time and talent!
Best regards,
Joe
I am Catholic, but unfortunately not the devout kind. That must explain my unfamiliarity with how the Catholic church handles or authenticates claims of miracles.
Despite my unfamiliarity, let me answer your questions by not making the following assumptions:
“…that no one has asked for a rigorous scientific investigation of this phenomenon.” On the contrary, I’m sure some priests, bishops or nuns have initiated an investigation. We just don’t know about their effort, as it has not made it to the news yet.
“…that after so many years of this phenomenon, no investigation has been carried out by the Catholic Church in the Philippines.” I won’t make this assumption, either. For all I know, an investigation may have been going on for years now. Unfortunately, the investigators have not yet reached any conclusion or formed any opinion. Give them a couple of centuries, though, and I’m sure they will wrap up their inquiry and come up with brilliant findings that will enlighten us.
Carmelo’s huge number of followers does not validate his phenomenon, just as the fanatics who pack in caves or in some cultists camps do not indicate the worthiness of joining those cults. The dead at Waco and Jonestown may still be gnashing their teeth somewhere, bewailing their previous, gullible life on earth.
Stay magical,
Leodini
Somehow i missed the point. Probably lost in translation
Anyway … nice blog to visit.
cheers, Transferal.
Probably because I don’t have a point…
Leodini
IF YOU DO NOT KNOW THE PEOPLE WHO FOLLOWS CARMELO CORTES. DO NOT COMPARE THEM TO FANATICS WHO HAS NO BRAINS AND LIVES IN THE CAVES BECAUSE WE ARE NOT. OUR FAITH IS ON GOD. THROUGH MOTHER MARY. WE DO NOT DO MAGIC MAGIC. WE BELEIVE THAT HE WAS THE INSTRUMENT OF GOD TO BRING PEOPLE BACK TO OUR FAITH. WE ARE NOT WOLVES WITH OUR SALIVA DROOLING IN FOLLOWING HIM.
IT IS OUR FAITH TO GOD. GET IT?. IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE , STAY ON YOUR CORNER AND SHUT UP.
I have to nix your suggestion for me to stay in my corner and shut up. This is a blog meant to communicate our ideas to our audience. If I were to follow your advice, there would be nothing but blank pages here.
Lighten up. I am not attacking your belief. On the contrary, I have a healthy respect for people’s views, creeds and persuasions even if they are contrary to mine. I hope you hold the same respect for my belief (or disbelief) and for the skepticism of others who don’t see things the way you do.
History is replete with violence, crusades, murders, rapes, genocides, witches on stakes and suicide bombings in the name of deities and religions. If people only tolerate other people’s beliefs more than they have demonstrated so far, we wouldn’t be needing images on rose petals to prop up our faith in God. We would find no need to scrounge around for miracles, as humans living in harmony despite their diversity would be, by itself, a miracle.
I suggest you re-read what I earlier wrote. I did not compare the followers of Carmelo Cortes to brainless fanatics who live in caves. What I wrote was that the huge number of his followers does not necessarily prove the genuineness of his miracles, in the same way that the large number of cultists living in caves does not validate the correctness of their leader’s teachings.
It seems the nuance of what I wrote has escaped you completely. Blame it on my writing skill, or lack of it. I have to go review my Writing 101 subject, so I will be clearer next time.
Stay magical,
Leodini
I have shared many experiences with Brother Carmelo Cortez and have reason to believe he is a simple sincere
human being.
You have to personally experience it to believe it!
Last Friday, Carmelo Cortez held a healing service for the BLD community in St. Mary’s Church, Rahway, NJ. My mom, sister, and I was present, and we had no clue about the miraculous petals beforehand.
All three of us waited on line to stand at the altar with several other people. He laid hands over our heads, said a silent prayer, then inserted one white rose petal within the hem/collar of our shirts. After we left the altar, we waited a few more seconds before viewing the petals. I was amazed to see the calvary scene (Crucified Jesus and two criminals at his side)etched on the petal. All three of us had the same sacred image. It was so intricate and detailed on something so small and delicate; there was no way it was pre-made.
I am 100% sure that the petals were blank like a sheet of paper before we received it. Others who attended received images of the Last Supper, Lady of Guadalupe, Virgin Mary and child, Holy Spirit (in the form of a dove) etc. Carmelo isn’t one to claim fame and glory for himself, but humbly insists that it is the hand of the Lord and that he is only an instrument faithfully serving Him. I’d be suspicious if he had said otherwise.
I truly believe that I have witnessed a miracle, not some hoax or magic trick. I know there are many skeptics out there, but to them I would say that if such an opportunity arises, please attend the event!
See it, and decide for yourself.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I really appreciate your taking the time to write them.
Stay magical,
Leodini
Thank you for your skepticism. As an engineer I am also a skeptic. My family and I were lucky to have attended one of his services in Salinas, CA. We were not planning to go there on Oct 4 because my eldest and I were running the half-marathon in San Jose the next day. We went to Salinas to visit my brother who is leaving for PI on Oct 7.
During the service, Brother Cortez dispelled any doubts by having volunteer attendees prepare the mineral water and rose petals into a bowl. During the healing a different volunteer is holding the bowl while he moved from one person to another. There are 5 of us in my family. All of us received different images – 2 different images of Mother Thereas, 2 different images of the Divine Mercy, and the fifth is San Rafael the angel.
For me that wasnt the miracle. The true miracle is that I was able to finish the half-marathon pain free. As a background, I could not even train for the race because I think my right leg has a stress fracture. I have a doctor’s appt this Friday to have it x-rayed. During the race the leg was pain free. Below are the links to the race and the miracle petals.
Half-marathon
http://www.flickr.com/photos/allaurente/sets/72157607772616072/
Petals
http://www.flickr.com/photos/allaurente/sets/72157607748466761/
In closing Leodini, I really want to prove the petals are fake. I just could not find anything wrong with them. The petals were blank in the beginning, Brother Cortez’ had nothing in his hands or fingers during the service, and he has the backing of the Archbishop in the Philippines, Parish Priest in Salinas, and the Archbishop on Monterey County.
I will not be surprised if years from now, Brother Cortez’ could lose his healing gift. God could take it away. Then at that time, he could be boneheaded and try to do magical tricks to make it look real just to continue the service. Because people do donate generously in the service and the sin of greed could take over. At that point, any miracle that he may have done in the past even if they are true miracles would be considered fake. As far as my limited scientific, technical engineering mind is, the petals he gave us on October 4 are true miracles.
This is not the first miracle I have seen so it would not break my faith if it was fake. I have seen the incorruptible dead bodies of saints inside the Vatican. The Buddhists claim that they also have the same phenomenon. But if you looked closely the Buddhist incorruptibles have signs of decay similar to those preserved in ice. The Catholic incorruptibles are preserved as if they just died today.
I HAD A GREAT EXPERIENCED WITH BROD. CARMELO CORTEZ.
TRICK, MAGIC CALL IT WHAT EVER YOU WANT, BUT FOR ME, COMING FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART… IT ITS HE AS THE INSTRUMENT OF OUR GOD AND OF VIRGIN MARY MOTHER OF GOD WHO WORKS ON IT. IT WAS 1992 AT 3AM, I WAS SERVING AS HIS VOLUNTEER, BROD. CARMELO ASK ME TO HOLD 3PCS. OF WHITE ROSES… AND AS I HOLD THE ROSES, HE LAY HIS HAND AND SAY A LITTLE PRAYER, AND THAT THE FLOWERS BLOOM… OPENS ALL THE PETALS, A SMALL PETALS REMAIN AT THE CENTER AND BECOME HOST…. THAT SERVE AS THE BODY AND BLOOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST…..WILL YOU CALL THIS A MAGIC? ITS NOT. ITS A MIRACLE FROM OUR BELOVED MOTHER MARY.
Hi,
Thank you for your sincerity. I’m happy for you. Your belief is strong. Not many people are similarly endowed with faith as strong as yours. You should be happy, and not sound upset.
Just to make myself clear—again. I never said that Bro. Carmelo produced his rose petal images using magic tricks.
What I have been saying so far is that, “I don’t know.” I have not seen the actual performances of these miracles. I, therefore, don’t have enough evidence to form an intelligent opinion or material on which to base a conclusion.
Stay magical,
Leodini
I really don’t know how to express my thoughts on this matter since I have never been a religious person. The last time I attended church was when I was 16, and I am now 29.
My boyfriend’s mother though is religious and asked me to attend a service with her. I did go and I got to meet Bro. Carmelo. He is a very humble person and asks for no donations. He would prefer you donate to your local chuch.
He does do as people say, though. I was very skeptical and was in shock when the images appeared on the petals. I recieved one with an image of the mother mary and child and the detail in the image is amazing!
Wether you are a believer or not, if you get the opportunity to attend a gathering please do so. It will leave you with a feeling not of disbelief but of curiosity and shock. I could not in anyway disprove his ability and i don’t believe I am the one to ever try. You have to see for yourself.
I have attended 6 or 7 of Carmelo’s services in various churches in the area over the last few years.
In most services there was no collection taken up. In 4 or 5 of these services I was a “catcher” ( a volunteer who stands behind the person as they are prayed over so if they are “slain in the Spirit” they do not hit the floor). I say this because doing this gave me a very good opportunity to observe everything from the outset of these services from close up. Which in part, was why I did this especially at the first few of these services I attended I was skepitical and felt there was some sort of trick.
The service starts with some prayers and a talk by Carmelo. After which he opens a new bottle of water. Since I was so close I could hear the seal crack. He always takes a drink and then pours some of the water over the white rose petals removed from the altar just seconds prior to this.
The bowl he uses is always a clear glass bowl. As soon as he does this, the entire church fills with a strong rose fragrance. This rose fragrance occurred at every service I attended. The attendance at these various services ranged from 300 to over 1000.
Ever one who wanted a rose petal receive one however not ever one had an image on it. As some one who witnessed these services up close there is no way these could have been stamped or printed. There was just no opportunity. As you can imagine all the petals are of different sizes and the images I have seen always fits the petal size.
My wife had attended several services before she received a petal with an image. When she did receive one with an image, it was on a petal about the size of a dime – very small. When she recovered it from her blouse, it had no image on it and she was disappointed, and while we were both looking at it, as it rested in her palm, an image of the Sacred Heart of Jesus appeared before our eyes.
Usually by the time the petal is removed by the person from their shirt the image is already visible. There is never an opportunity to tamper with these rose petals before the service starts since they are in plan view as bouquets in vases and are removed from the stems by volunteers from the church and placed directly into a clear glass dish and given directly to Carmelo.
In addition, he always wears a short-sleeve shirt. There has been at least one service where the Pastor has had the roses under lock and key before the service, so that they could not be tampered with by any one. At that same church, the Pastor did not allow Carmelo to touch the petals. Carmelo did pour the water over them and said a prayer over them as he usually does. Someone else, a volunteer from the parish, took them out of the bowl and placed them in people’s shirts while Carmelo prayed over that person.
The images still appeared. I have personally seen 50 or more rose petals with unique images all quite detailed. If this is not a miracle I would like someone to explain how this is done. It has to be more than he has some little stamping operation in the back room. This is more to this just stamped rose petals any one can think of that. There is just no time nor opportunity for the stamping. If that was the case how can that explain the Sacred Heart of Jesus appearing before our eyes?
I can also personally say that there is nothing on these petals while they are in the bowl as he moves from person to person. I could plainly seen in the bowl and was only a foot or so away as he passed in front of me hundreds of time over the course of these 4 or 5 services where I was a catcher and I was looking for any petals with any markings on them while in the bowl.
The not so amazing Randi said to me in an email that it is easy – he has stamps and acted like any one who believed it was a miracle was a fool since it would be easy to do this.
While I would be willing to bet he could not do it under the same circumstances as Carmelo does it, just stamping a dime size petal would be tedious. In addition, just how long would it take to stamp 500 or so petals just one nights worth. When he is the area he goes from Church to Church several nights in a row. He would need a little factory stamping these things.
It also seems to me that the stamping process would leave cuts or holes. None that I have seen have cuts or holes. That would be especially difficult since when he comes to the area he stays with friends I know from church, and they take him from Church to Church. These people have absolutely no reason to perpetrate a fraud on their neighbors and friends. Pax et bonum.
I NOTICED SOME CONFUSING LANGUAGE IN MY POSTING. PLEASE REPLACE MY POSTING WITH THE FOLLOWING: I have attended 6 or 7 of Carmelo’s services in various churches in the area over the last few years.
In most services there was no collection taken up. In 4 or 5 of these services I was a “catcher” ( a volunteer who stands behind the person as they are prayed over so if they are “slain in the Spirit” they do not hit the floor). I say this because doing this gave me a very good opportunity to observe everything from the outset of these services from close up. Which in part, was why I did this……. especially during the first services I attended I was skeptical and felt there was some sort of trick.
The service starts with some prayers and a talk by Carmelo. After which he opens a new bottle of water. Since I was so close I could hear the seal crack. He always takes a drink and then pours some of the water over the white rose petals removed from the altar just seconds prior to this.
The bowl he uses is always a clear glass bowl. As soon as he does this, the entire church fills with a strong rose fragrance. This rose fragrance occurred at every service I attended. The attendance at these various services ranged from 300 to over 1000.
Every one who wanted a rose petal received one however not every petal had an image on it. As some one who witnessed these services up close there is no way these could have been stamped or printed. There was just no opportunity. As you can imagine, all the petals are of different sizes and the images I have seen always fits the petal size.
My wife had attended several services before she received a petal with an image. When she did receive one with an image, it was on a petal about the size of a dime – very small. When she recovered it from her blouse, it had no image on it and she was disappointed, and while we were both looking at it, as it rested in her palm, an image of the Sacred Heart of Jesus appeared before our eyes.
Usually by the time the petal is removed by the person from their shirt the image is already visible. There is never an opportunity to tamper with these rose petals before the service starts since they are in plain view as bouquets in vases and are removed from the stems by volunteers from the church. They are then placed directly into a clear glass dish and given directly to Carmelo.
In addition, he always wears a short-sleeve shirt. There has been at least one service where the Pastor has had the roses under lock and key before the service, so that they could not be tampered with by any one. At that same church, the Pastor did not allow Carmelo to touch the petals. Carmelo did pour the water over them and said a prayer over them as he usually does. Someone else, a volunteer from the parish, took them out of the bowl and placed them in people’s shirts while Carmelo prayed over that person.
The images still appeared. I have personally seen 50 or more rose petals with unique images all quite detailed. If this is not a miracle I would like someone to explain how this is done. It has to be more than he has some little stamping operation in the back room. There is more to this than just stamped rose petals. Any one can think of that. There is just no time nor opportunity for the stamping. If that was the case, how can that explain the Sacred Heart of Jesus appearing before our eyes?
I can also personally say that there is nothing on these petals while they are in the bowl as he moves from person to person. I could plainly see in the bowl and was only a foot or so away. He passed in front of me hundreds of times over the course of these 4 or 5 services where I was a catcher. I was certainly looking for any petals with any markings on them while in the bowl.
The not so amazing Randi said to me in an email that it is easy – he has stamps and acted like any one who believed it was a miracle was a fool since it would be easy to do this.
While I would be willing to bet he could not do it under the same circumstances as Carmelo does it, just stamping a dime size petal would be tedious. In addition, just how long would it take to stamp 500 or so petals in just one night? When he is the area he goes from Church to Church several nights in a row. He would need a little factory stamping these petals.
It also seems to me that the stamping process would leave cuts or holes. None that I have seen have cuts or holes. That would be especially difficult since when he comes to the area he stays with friends I know from church, and they take him from Church to Church. These people have absolutely no reason to perpetrate a fraud on their neighbors and friends. Pax et bonum.
21 june, 2009
Lincoln, CA
Brother Carmelo Cortez came to our parish ( diocese of Sacramento ) upon our invitation. My wife and I with about 20 other sponsors of various ethnic backgrounds, all Catholics were with him for three days, to help facilitate as he ministered to two churches. Attendance was large for every service, always preceded by Mass and Holy Eucharist, celebrated by a priest.
The process and details of the Miraculous Petals had been described previously, and was the same with us. My wife and I along with maybe 95% of those who received the petals were blessed with beautiful, detailed images. I received a beautiful image ot the Blessed Mother with her Immaculate Heart on the feastday (June 20). Needless to say, I was overcome by a deep sense of gratitude and humility. This day, no doubt, is the most blessed for me and made my faith even stronger.
But beyond these special gifts we received, is the Message that Brother Carmelo left us : We must continue to pray, to be humble, to love others as the Lord loves us, and to help the poor.
I have no doubt that these petals are authentic messages from God.
Quotes from Leodini:
“After that gigantic hem and haw, let me give you a straight answer for a change. Someone with knowledge in magic (or printing, engraving, coin minting) can produce images on rose petals by using what we magicians would euphemistically call method (not trick) of the trade. While I don’t accuse Carmelo of using magic tricks to produce those petal images, I would dare say that those same images can be produced using natural, not divine, methods—if you choose to do so.”
This is a great straightforward answer that I am looking for. And since it is a method of the trade it’s not proper to ask you to reveal how it is done. Thank you.